Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Latest on Bombings at Hotel in Kenya
Aired November 29, 2002 - 08:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to Mombasa, Kenya right now, the latest on yesterday's bombings there at that hotel.
Ben Wedeman has made his way there. He's standing by live there in the southeastern coast and joins us by way of video phone -- and, Ben, we've talked about these 12 arrests right now, or not arrests essentially, but the questioning of at least a dozen on the ground there.
What more are you learning about this and other items connected to the investigation?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, Bill, we're talking about 12 people who have been detained by the Kenyan authorities for questioning relating to the bombing of the Paradise Hotel behind me yesterday. It must be stressed, however, that none of them have been charged with anything. It really is part of the investigation and really the investigation is just beginning.
Now, among those two are two holders of U.S. passports, a man and a woman. But the police at this point are saying that they have no indication that they were actually involved in any way in the bombing.
Now, earlier today Israeli investigators were combing the scene, looking for any bits of evidence and information. Certainly there is certainly a lot of evidence and information available. This piece of jagged metal, it appears from an automobile or some sort of vehicle just right near where I'm standing. So that gives you an idea of the amount of evidence that's lying around that they will be studying very closely, maybe not this piece in particular.
Now, meanwhile the last plane load of Israeli tourists has left the Mombasa airport. They left about mid-afternoon. More than 250 Israelis have departed Mombasa since this bombing.
Now just in a few minutes we're expecting Daniel Arap Moi, the president of Kenya, to be coming here to go, to inspect the scene. Of course, the Kenyans very concerned about the impact and ramifications of this bombing because Kenya depends very much on tourism as a source of revenue -- Bill.
HEMMER: And, Ben, quickly here with regard to the investigation, certainly the Kenyans will have a major hand in this. Will the Israelis and perhaps, for that matter, the U.S. have a role, as well?
WEDEMAN: Oh, definitely. The Israelis, as I said, have already been here. They've combed the scene. They're still conducting an investigation, as well as American officials, who are very concerned or interested in the possible involvement of the al Qaeda network -- Bill.
HEMMER: Ben, thank you.
Ben Wedeman on the scene in Mombasa.
For more on that investigation, we'll track it with Ben on the ground there.
We want to talk more about this story right now. Yesterday, the Army of Palestine, a little known group out of Lebanon, claimed responsibility. But quickly a number of people dismissed that claim. Other officials still say they are convinced the attacks have all the earmarks of an al Qaeda operation.
Let's talk about those factors in Washington today.
Michael O'Hanlon of Brookings Institution is now our guest this morning.
Michael, good to see you again.
Good morning to you.
MICHAEL O'HANLON, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: We can go back and forth on this whole thing about a claim of responsibility. I think maybe the more pertinent question is this, at what point in the past has al Qaeda come out and publicly said they did this or they did that and laid the responsibility on themselves as a group?
O'HANLON: Well, generally they're reluctant to do that and we've had to figure out what they've been up to, as a rule. And, of course, there was a lot of talk from bin Laden in the summer of 2001, or at least some notable conversation about a coming attack. But it was a long time before videotape last fall really seemed to confirm his role in that attack.
And so we figured out, based on who was involved, based on the tactics, based on the sophistication of the effort, what had been behind this attack and who had done it. It was not the sort of thing where you get a confession or a claim of responsibility right after the attack occurs.
HEMMER: So if it was not al Qaeda, and if you listen to all these experts who are convinced that it was, what would that tell you?
O'HANLON: Well, it would tell me that other organizations would be mimicking al Qaeda, because this is very much the sort of coordinated assault that has been the hallmark of that organization. And for that reason, I would suspect that organization first. I think it probably was an al Qaeda attack. But there's always the possibility that terrorists will learn from each other. That's been the norm in the past and it's certainly not out of the question in this case. Moreover, this attack was coordinated and it did involve a surface to air missile, but the actual orchestration of the attack was not all that sophisticated. You could imagine eight or 10 people who happened to have a surface to air missile or two in their possession devising this sort of plan fairly quickly without any kind of international direction, without any multi-city operation.
So it was sophisticated at one level, but not so difficult that other organizations couldn't try to carry it out, if they could get their hands on these surface to air missiles.
HEMMER: Your answer tells me something I read from comments. You say it is serious from yesterday, but not seismic. How so?
O'HANLON: Well, 2002, of course, has been a tough year. Obviously we did not have the kind of major attack we had in 2001. But we've gotten accustomed to a fairly high level of global assault from al Qaeda, even this year. And it's sometimes easy to forget, because most of the attacks have been overseas. In fact, virtually all of them have. But you had attacks in Tunisia and Pakistan, of course, the large scale Bali bombing. You had the attacks off the Yemenese coast of the oil tanker, American troops targeted in Kuwait, and then, to some extent, perhaps, the Russian hostage debacle in Moscow with the Chechens behind that, but claiming some involvement, or at least bin Laden claiming some broader global link to al Qaeda in that effort.
So you've had basically every two or three months a fairly serious attack with this number of fatalities, if not more. And that tells me that what's new here is the surface to air missile use against the airplane, the part of the attack that did not kill anyone. But otherwise, the pace of killing has not really intensified because of yesterday's events.
HEMMER: Interesting. Go back over the past 30 years, Michael, quickly here. Terrorism tends to ebb and flow in different parts of the world and with different tactics. Is this something that we just have to get used to right now in the near term before you get a firm grip on infiltrating these groups and really doing hard core damage to their base structure?
O'HANLON: Yes, I think terrorism is going to be around for a good time. It has been for quite a while. It's very hard to stop definitively. I think, frankly, as bad as 2002 was in many ways, we would obviously all be relieved to have nothing worse than 2002 in the future, and 2001 is, of course, the year that stands in our mind. That's the sort of thing we have to avoid, or something even worse.
But terrorists developed suicide attacks really in the 1980s. So some extent, it began in the Sri Lankan civil war, a war that itself is starting to wind down, it appears. But once those suicide tactics were devised there, they were then adopted by Palestinians and other anti-Israeli groups, and then, of course, al Qaeda.
So you do have this learning process and sharing between organizations. There are just too many terrorist groups out there to think that we can stop this kind of violence. Obviously, it would be nice to put al Qaeda more on the run and continue to go after its top leadership.
But, again, 2002 is already an improvement over 2001, at least so far, and frankly I'm not sure we can hope for a much quieter 2003. It's going to take a long time.
HEMMER: Thanks for your comments today.
O'HANLON: My pleasure.
HEMMER: Michael O'Hanlon, again, in D.C.
We'll talk again.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 29, 2002 - 08:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to Mombasa, Kenya right now, the latest on yesterday's bombings there at that hotel.
Ben Wedeman has made his way there. He's standing by live there in the southeastern coast and joins us by way of video phone -- and, Ben, we've talked about these 12 arrests right now, or not arrests essentially, but the questioning of at least a dozen on the ground there.
What more are you learning about this and other items connected to the investigation?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, Bill, we're talking about 12 people who have been detained by the Kenyan authorities for questioning relating to the bombing of the Paradise Hotel behind me yesterday. It must be stressed, however, that none of them have been charged with anything. It really is part of the investigation and really the investigation is just beginning.
Now, among those two are two holders of U.S. passports, a man and a woman. But the police at this point are saying that they have no indication that they were actually involved in any way in the bombing.
Now, earlier today Israeli investigators were combing the scene, looking for any bits of evidence and information. Certainly there is certainly a lot of evidence and information available. This piece of jagged metal, it appears from an automobile or some sort of vehicle just right near where I'm standing. So that gives you an idea of the amount of evidence that's lying around that they will be studying very closely, maybe not this piece in particular.
Now, meanwhile the last plane load of Israeli tourists has left the Mombasa airport. They left about mid-afternoon. More than 250 Israelis have departed Mombasa since this bombing.
Now just in a few minutes we're expecting Daniel Arap Moi, the president of Kenya, to be coming here to go, to inspect the scene. Of course, the Kenyans very concerned about the impact and ramifications of this bombing because Kenya depends very much on tourism as a source of revenue -- Bill.
HEMMER: And, Ben, quickly here with regard to the investigation, certainly the Kenyans will have a major hand in this. Will the Israelis and perhaps, for that matter, the U.S. have a role, as well?
WEDEMAN: Oh, definitely. The Israelis, as I said, have already been here. They've combed the scene. They're still conducting an investigation, as well as American officials, who are very concerned or interested in the possible involvement of the al Qaeda network -- Bill.
HEMMER: Ben, thank you.
Ben Wedeman on the scene in Mombasa.
For more on that investigation, we'll track it with Ben on the ground there.
We want to talk more about this story right now. Yesterday, the Army of Palestine, a little known group out of Lebanon, claimed responsibility. But quickly a number of people dismissed that claim. Other officials still say they are convinced the attacks have all the earmarks of an al Qaeda operation.
Let's talk about those factors in Washington today.
Michael O'Hanlon of Brookings Institution is now our guest this morning.
Michael, good to see you again.
Good morning to you.
MICHAEL O'HANLON, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: We can go back and forth on this whole thing about a claim of responsibility. I think maybe the more pertinent question is this, at what point in the past has al Qaeda come out and publicly said they did this or they did that and laid the responsibility on themselves as a group?
O'HANLON: Well, generally they're reluctant to do that and we've had to figure out what they've been up to, as a rule. And, of course, there was a lot of talk from bin Laden in the summer of 2001, or at least some notable conversation about a coming attack. But it was a long time before videotape last fall really seemed to confirm his role in that attack.
And so we figured out, based on who was involved, based on the tactics, based on the sophistication of the effort, what had been behind this attack and who had done it. It was not the sort of thing where you get a confession or a claim of responsibility right after the attack occurs.
HEMMER: So if it was not al Qaeda, and if you listen to all these experts who are convinced that it was, what would that tell you?
O'HANLON: Well, it would tell me that other organizations would be mimicking al Qaeda, because this is very much the sort of coordinated assault that has been the hallmark of that organization. And for that reason, I would suspect that organization first. I think it probably was an al Qaeda attack. But there's always the possibility that terrorists will learn from each other. That's been the norm in the past and it's certainly not out of the question in this case. Moreover, this attack was coordinated and it did involve a surface to air missile, but the actual orchestration of the attack was not all that sophisticated. You could imagine eight or 10 people who happened to have a surface to air missile or two in their possession devising this sort of plan fairly quickly without any kind of international direction, without any multi-city operation.
So it was sophisticated at one level, but not so difficult that other organizations couldn't try to carry it out, if they could get their hands on these surface to air missiles.
HEMMER: Your answer tells me something I read from comments. You say it is serious from yesterday, but not seismic. How so?
O'HANLON: Well, 2002, of course, has been a tough year. Obviously we did not have the kind of major attack we had in 2001. But we've gotten accustomed to a fairly high level of global assault from al Qaeda, even this year. And it's sometimes easy to forget, because most of the attacks have been overseas. In fact, virtually all of them have. But you had attacks in Tunisia and Pakistan, of course, the large scale Bali bombing. You had the attacks off the Yemenese coast of the oil tanker, American troops targeted in Kuwait, and then, to some extent, perhaps, the Russian hostage debacle in Moscow with the Chechens behind that, but claiming some involvement, or at least bin Laden claiming some broader global link to al Qaeda in that effort.
So you've had basically every two or three months a fairly serious attack with this number of fatalities, if not more. And that tells me that what's new here is the surface to air missile use against the airplane, the part of the attack that did not kill anyone. But otherwise, the pace of killing has not really intensified because of yesterday's events.
HEMMER: Interesting. Go back over the past 30 years, Michael, quickly here. Terrorism tends to ebb and flow in different parts of the world and with different tactics. Is this something that we just have to get used to right now in the near term before you get a firm grip on infiltrating these groups and really doing hard core damage to their base structure?
O'HANLON: Yes, I think terrorism is going to be around for a good time. It has been for quite a while. It's very hard to stop definitively. I think, frankly, as bad as 2002 was in many ways, we would obviously all be relieved to have nothing worse than 2002 in the future, and 2001 is, of course, the year that stands in our mind. That's the sort of thing we have to avoid, or something even worse.
But terrorists developed suicide attacks really in the 1980s. So some extent, it began in the Sri Lankan civil war, a war that itself is starting to wind down, it appears. But once those suicide tactics were devised there, they were then adopted by Palestinians and other anti-Israeli groups, and then, of course, al Qaeda.
So you do have this learning process and sharing between organizations. There are just too many terrorist groups out there to think that we can stop this kind of violence. Obviously, it would be nice to put al Qaeda more on the run and continue to go after its top leadership.
But, again, 2002 is already an improvement over 2001, at least so far, and frankly I'm not sure we can hope for a much quieter 2003. It's going to take a long time.
HEMMER: Thanks for your comments today.
O'HANLON: My pleasure.
HEMMER: Michael O'Hanlon, again, in D.C.
We'll talk again.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
