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American Morning
Interview With Richard Butler
Aired December 03, 2002 - 07:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to talk more about all of these issues, the palace the inspectors went today, among the sites searched by the U.N. team about four years ago.
Richard Butler at the time was leader of that team. He knows the ins and the outs of many of these massive complexes. He's live again in Sydney, Australia with a reaction to the very latest.
Richard, good to have you back here.
RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: I want to know what you think inspectors can do with these massive facilities and massive complexes, how much can you truly get done in a 90-minute visit?
BUTLER: Bill, not a lot. Let's put the palace thing in perspective. On the one hand, it is good that inspectors were able to go to that place, because it, you know, puts in concrete the proposition that they can go anywhere, anytime, which was something that has been needed for a long time and they did it today by symbolically going to one of those palaces.
But I want to make this point clear. The palaces in the past were never an issue, other than in Iraqi propaganda. Four years ago, the Iraqis said, you cannot come to these places, because it would offend our dignity and our sovereignty.
And when we did try to go there, we got to a point where we measured the presidential sites in Iraq. Bill, those sites were some 50 square kilometers, 1,100 buildings -- that is the exact figure -- only eight of them palaces.
Now, what is really important today, apart from the symbolic gesture of going to one of these marbled palaces where the president allegedly hangs out, is: Will the inspectors be able to go to the associated buildings in presidential sites? For example, that one in Baghdad has near it an enormous warehouse, a warehouse the size -- twice the size of Yankee Stadium, and we had evidence in the past that there were weapons materials there. Will the inspectors be able to go to that place or just to the marbled halls?
HEMMER: All right, all fair...
(CROSSTALK)
BUTLER: ... I make that point.
HEMMER: Yes, all fair questions going forward.
Let's shift our focus a little bit. "The Wall Street Journal" is writing a story today that seems to indicate that right now, Iraq seems to be winning publicly the PR battle right now. If you look at this deadline of December 8, knowing now the report we're getting out of Baghdad that they'll file it the day before, on December 7, from an outside perspective, be as objective as you can right now, Richard, is Iraq winning that PR front?
BUTLER: Yes. You want objectivity? Yes. The whole business of showing a smiling face, letting the inspectors go wherever they want to go, and above all, Bill, having you and I, the media, CNN, go with them, they're winning the public relations battle.
I've made the point before with you that the inspectors, of course, had to start slow and careful. But the business of the media going along, Iraq is showing happy factory managers saying, look, they came here, they saw nothing, isn't that great? They're winning the public relations battle in that sense. And why they are is because nothing serious has yet happened, including the visit to the marbled hall today, one of Saddam's palaces.
Truly, Bill, nothing serious has yet happened. That will only happen after Iraq lodges its declaration on Saturday, Sunday -- whenever it is. And in the meantime, my simple objective answer is yes, in public relations terms, they've been doing quite well.
HEMMER: OK, listen, talk about a story that broke yesterday. Apparently, inspectors went back to a place that was visited four years ago.
BUTLER: Right.
HEMMER: Some equipment had been tagged. It's now missing and gone. Do you know what this equipment might have done for the Iraqis?
BUTLER: Yes, it had to do with their missile program. I find it slightly disturbing, but not more than that. I wouldn't want to make large of it. Slightly disturbing that that tagged equipment has gone. Quite frankly, when I saw that report, I thought, well, what else is new? I mean, that's what you would expect.
What to me was more interesting yesterday was that they gave no satisfactory explanation for that. And in the same context, they shifted their story on the aluminum tubes that they were seeking to import illegally for their nuclear program, which they then said was for their missile program and so on.
Bill, I think you've asked a great question. I think it's in that area that we are starting to see the real hard edge of Iraqi evasion. That's not what we're seeing in a visit to a palace. That's the soft edge not the hard edge.
HEMMER: Got it. Richard, thanks -- Richard Butler, we'll talk again tomorrow -- live in Sydney, Australia.
BUTLER: OK.
HEMMER: Thank you, sir. OK.
BUTLER: Thanks, Bill -- bye.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired December 3, 2002 - 07:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to talk more about all of these issues, the palace the inspectors went today, among the sites searched by the U.N. team about four years ago.
Richard Butler at the time was leader of that team. He knows the ins and the outs of many of these massive complexes. He's live again in Sydney, Australia with a reaction to the very latest.
Richard, good to have you back here.
RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: I want to know what you think inspectors can do with these massive facilities and massive complexes, how much can you truly get done in a 90-minute visit?
BUTLER: Bill, not a lot. Let's put the palace thing in perspective. On the one hand, it is good that inspectors were able to go to that place, because it, you know, puts in concrete the proposition that they can go anywhere, anytime, which was something that has been needed for a long time and they did it today by symbolically going to one of those palaces.
But I want to make this point clear. The palaces in the past were never an issue, other than in Iraqi propaganda. Four years ago, the Iraqis said, you cannot come to these places, because it would offend our dignity and our sovereignty.
And when we did try to go there, we got to a point where we measured the presidential sites in Iraq. Bill, those sites were some 50 square kilometers, 1,100 buildings -- that is the exact figure -- only eight of them palaces.
Now, what is really important today, apart from the symbolic gesture of going to one of these marbled palaces where the president allegedly hangs out, is: Will the inspectors be able to go to the associated buildings in presidential sites? For example, that one in Baghdad has near it an enormous warehouse, a warehouse the size -- twice the size of Yankee Stadium, and we had evidence in the past that there were weapons materials there. Will the inspectors be able to go to that place or just to the marbled halls?
HEMMER: All right, all fair...
(CROSSTALK)
BUTLER: ... I make that point.
HEMMER: Yes, all fair questions going forward.
Let's shift our focus a little bit. "The Wall Street Journal" is writing a story today that seems to indicate that right now, Iraq seems to be winning publicly the PR battle right now. If you look at this deadline of December 8, knowing now the report we're getting out of Baghdad that they'll file it the day before, on December 7, from an outside perspective, be as objective as you can right now, Richard, is Iraq winning that PR front?
BUTLER: Yes. You want objectivity? Yes. The whole business of showing a smiling face, letting the inspectors go wherever they want to go, and above all, Bill, having you and I, the media, CNN, go with them, they're winning the public relations battle.
I've made the point before with you that the inspectors, of course, had to start slow and careful. But the business of the media going along, Iraq is showing happy factory managers saying, look, they came here, they saw nothing, isn't that great? They're winning the public relations battle in that sense. And why they are is because nothing serious has yet happened, including the visit to the marbled hall today, one of Saddam's palaces.
Truly, Bill, nothing serious has yet happened. That will only happen after Iraq lodges its declaration on Saturday, Sunday -- whenever it is. And in the meantime, my simple objective answer is yes, in public relations terms, they've been doing quite well.
HEMMER: OK, listen, talk about a story that broke yesterday. Apparently, inspectors went back to a place that was visited four years ago.
BUTLER: Right.
HEMMER: Some equipment had been tagged. It's now missing and gone. Do you know what this equipment might have done for the Iraqis?
BUTLER: Yes, it had to do with their missile program. I find it slightly disturbing, but not more than that. I wouldn't want to make large of it. Slightly disturbing that that tagged equipment has gone. Quite frankly, when I saw that report, I thought, well, what else is new? I mean, that's what you would expect.
What to me was more interesting yesterday was that they gave no satisfactory explanation for that. And in the same context, they shifted their story on the aluminum tubes that they were seeking to import illegally for their nuclear program, which they then said was for their missile program and so on.
Bill, I think you've asked a great question. I think it's in that area that we are starting to see the real hard edge of Iraqi evasion. That's not what we're seeing in a visit to a palace. That's the soft edge not the hard edge.
HEMMER: Got it. Richard, thanks -- Richard Butler, we'll talk again tomorrow -- live in Sydney, Australia.
BUTLER: OK.
HEMMER: Thank you, sir. OK.
BUTLER: Thanks, Bill -- bye.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
