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American Morning

Bush Warns Hussein Again; Interview with Joseph Wilson

Aired December 03, 2002 - 08:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get to the White House right now, at the top of the hour. President Bush has said again repeatedly yesterday that he doubts that U.N. inspectors will be able to accomplish their mission in Iraq. Again he is warning Saddam Hussein that any delay, any deception, any defiance will not be tolerated.
Suzanne Malveaux, front lawn of the White House, tracking developments on that front -- Suzanne, good morning.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

Well, President Bush very skeptical about the latest developments here. Really, the Bush administration taking a wait and see approach. The president today is dealing with both international as well as domestic issues. He is back on the campaign trail. That is right. He is headed off to Louisiana today. That's where he is going to be campaigning for Senate candidate, Republican Suzanne Haik Terrell for Senate, hoping to oust Mary Landrieu. It would give the GOP a four seat advantage.

But as you know, also, front and center today is the war on terror. Iraq officials saying they will meet that December 8 deadline that was issued by the U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, requiring them to declare all chemical, biological, nuclear weapons. But the Bush administration really taking a kind of wait and see approach. President Bush yesterday issuing a very stern warning to Saddam Hussein, telling him that the end game is near.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the inspections process, the United States will be making one judgment. Has Saddam Hussein changed his behavior of the last 11 years? Has he decided to cooperate willingly and comply completely or has he not? So far the signs are not encouraging.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: December 8 is really seen as a critical threshold. The Bush administration does not believe that that declaration is going to be accurate. But, again, they say they will take a wait and see approach and they'll wait for inspectors, as well, to see what they come up with -- Bill.

HEMMER: Suzanne, thanks.

Suzanne Malveaux tracking developments at the White House. We want to get reaction right now to the news we're getting out of Baghdad and Iraq's announcement that it plans to turn in its list of weapons a day before that U.N. deadline.

From D.C. this morning, Ambassador Joseph Wilson back with us, the former U.S. Charges d'Affairs in Baghdad.

Good to see you again, Ambassador.

Good morning to you.

AMB. JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER U.S. CHARGE D'AFFAIRS: Hi, Bill.

How are you this morning?

HEMMER: I'm doing just fine. Appreciate your time again today.

Richard Butler an hour ago said Iraq clearly, in his estimation, is winning the P.R. war. Do you agree with that?

WILSON: Well, I think what you're seeing here is a three sided game of chess. You've got Saddam trying to appear to be so accommodating that the international community is going to find it difficult to decide that a war against his regime is necessary. On our side, you've got President Bush reiterating that we think that he's a lying son of a -- son of a gun and that we don't believe anything that he's going to tell us. And then you've got al Qaeda in the mix, hitting Israeli targets in Kenya, basically saying if there is going to be a military action, we want the world to see this as an Islamic-Judeo-Christian war rather than a war to disarm Saddam.

HEMMER: I'm curious to know, it's a tough answer to get from you because I know you're not inside the White House. Does the White House feel the same that Richard Butler feels? And if so, is that why the president comes out yesterday, warns once again don't play any hide and seek games with us? This follows up the British announcement of this videotape about torture being conducted by prisoners inside of Baghdad.

If you size it up right now and really try to gauge world opinion, it appears, though, that, you know, you're hitting it from all sides and it's a question, then, ultimately, of what sticks. And at this point, what is sticking?

WILSON: Well, I think that's probably right, what Ambassador Butler said, was that we are concerned. We need to be concerned that Saddam win the P.R. battle, that, in fact, that we need to retain the focus on the weapons of mass destruction and on the disarmament.

That's why I'm of the opinion that the British announcement yesterday was probably more of a distraction. It gets us focused on sort of the breadth of Saddam's crimes rather than what is truly of vital national security concern to us and to our allies in the region and in the rest of the world.

HEMMER: Yes, but if you look at the British perspective, perhaps this is just another rung on the ladder when you build your case, right?

WILSON: Everybody knows how bad Saddam is. Most of the information the British produced yesterday was well known. I might add that when I was in Baghdad, we produced three human rights reports to the U.S. Congress, all of which detailed the atrocities that have been committed by his regime.

HEMMER: Yes, December...

WILSON: And that was 12 years ago.

HEMMER: Yes, December 7 apparently is the date Iraq says it's going to turn in this list, a day ahead of time. What's going to be contained on that list? And I guess more importantly, December 8 and December 9, what do we need to look for as we move forward in the days after that point?

WILSON: Well, I think in the days after December 7, whatever Saddam produces on his list will have to be, will have to be matched up against what we and other friendly intelligence services may have on Iraq's active programs in weapons of mass destruction and in missile development, after which I suspect that there will be a concerted effort to go in and assess the discrepancies. In other words, we will have one set of information, Saddam will have produced another set. We'll try and match up the two sets. I suspect that that will be what goes on between then and the end of January.

HEMMER: All very int -- the end of January?

WILSON: I think January 26 is the other key date.

HEMMER: So you think no military action until the end of January at the earliest?

WILSON: Well, military action, I think that if you take the president at his word when he says zero tolerance, and I do, there could well be military action directed at any obstacles that Saddam poses. That would be, it seems to me, within the parameters that the president has identified.

HEMMER: All right, listen...

WILSON: In terms of a broad forcible disarmament campaign or a so-called regime change campaign, I think that that will probably be a little bit later into the new year.

HEMMER: Ken Pollack, the author who wrote "The Threatening Storm," was with us yesterday. He believes right now there is no movement seen right now on behalf of the Iraqi military, which leads him to conclude that Saddam Hussein does think, again, that he can avoid some sort of military conflict.

Do you see it the same way right now?

WILSON: Oh, I think that's part of it. I think clearly Saddam is playing the diplomatic game, assuming that at some point the international community will lack the will to support a U.S. ground invasion. At the same time, I suspect he's adopting more of a rope a dope strategy where he will understand that his best chance of defeating a U.S. invasion will be in an urban warfare type environment.

HEMMER: Thank you, Ambassador.

Ambassador Joseph Wilson once again with us in D.C.

Always a pleasure to talk to you.

WILSON: A pleasure.

HEMMER: All right, here's Daryn.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 3, 2002 - 08:02   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get to the White House right now, at the top of the hour. President Bush has said again repeatedly yesterday that he doubts that U.N. inspectors will be able to accomplish their mission in Iraq. Again he is warning Saddam Hussein that any delay, any deception, any defiance will not be tolerated.
Suzanne Malveaux, front lawn of the White House, tracking developments on that front -- Suzanne, good morning.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

Well, President Bush very skeptical about the latest developments here. Really, the Bush administration taking a wait and see approach. The president today is dealing with both international as well as domestic issues. He is back on the campaign trail. That is right. He is headed off to Louisiana today. That's where he is going to be campaigning for Senate candidate, Republican Suzanne Haik Terrell for Senate, hoping to oust Mary Landrieu. It would give the GOP a four seat advantage.

But as you know, also, front and center today is the war on terror. Iraq officials saying they will meet that December 8 deadline that was issued by the U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, requiring them to declare all chemical, biological, nuclear weapons. But the Bush administration really taking a kind of wait and see approach. President Bush yesterday issuing a very stern warning to Saddam Hussein, telling him that the end game is near.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the inspections process, the United States will be making one judgment. Has Saddam Hussein changed his behavior of the last 11 years? Has he decided to cooperate willingly and comply completely or has he not? So far the signs are not encouraging.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: December 8 is really seen as a critical threshold. The Bush administration does not believe that that declaration is going to be accurate. But, again, they say they will take a wait and see approach and they'll wait for inspectors, as well, to see what they come up with -- Bill.

HEMMER: Suzanne, thanks.

Suzanne Malveaux tracking developments at the White House. We want to get reaction right now to the news we're getting out of Baghdad and Iraq's announcement that it plans to turn in its list of weapons a day before that U.N. deadline.

From D.C. this morning, Ambassador Joseph Wilson back with us, the former U.S. Charges d'Affairs in Baghdad.

Good to see you again, Ambassador.

Good morning to you.

AMB. JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER U.S. CHARGE D'AFFAIRS: Hi, Bill.

How are you this morning?

HEMMER: I'm doing just fine. Appreciate your time again today.

Richard Butler an hour ago said Iraq clearly, in his estimation, is winning the P.R. war. Do you agree with that?

WILSON: Well, I think what you're seeing here is a three sided game of chess. You've got Saddam trying to appear to be so accommodating that the international community is going to find it difficult to decide that a war against his regime is necessary. On our side, you've got President Bush reiterating that we think that he's a lying son of a -- son of a gun and that we don't believe anything that he's going to tell us. And then you've got al Qaeda in the mix, hitting Israeli targets in Kenya, basically saying if there is going to be a military action, we want the world to see this as an Islamic-Judeo-Christian war rather than a war to disarm Saddam.

HEMMER: I'm curious to know, it's a tough answer to get from you because I know you're not inside the White House. Does the White House feel the same that Richard Butler feels? And if so, is that why the president comes out yesterday, warns once again don't play any hide and seek games with us? This follows up the British announcement of this videotape about torture being conducted by prisoners inside of Baghdad.

If you size it up right now and really try to gauge world opinion, it appears, though, that, you know, you're hitting it from all sides and it's a question, then, ultimately, of what sticks. And at this point, what is sticking?

WILSON: Well, I think that's probably right, what Ambassador Butler said, was that we are concerned. We need to be concerned that Saddam win the P.R. battle, that, in fact, that we need to retain the focus on the weapons of mass destruction and on the disarmament.

That's why I'm of the opinion that the British announcement yesterday was probably more of a distraction. It gets us focused on sort of the breadth of Saddam's crimes rather than what is truly of vital national security concern to us and to our allies in the region and in the rest of the world.

HEMMER: Yes, but if you look at the British perspective, perhaps this is just another rung on the ladder when you build your case, right?

WILSON: Everybody knows how bad Saddam is. Most of the information the British produced yesterday was well known. I might add that when I was in Baghdad, we produced three human rights reports to the U.S. Congress, all of which detailed the atrocities that have been committed by his regime.

HEMMER: Yes, December...

WILSON: And that was 12 years ago.

HEMMER: Yes, December 7 apparently is the date Iraq says it's going to turn in this list, a day ahead of time. What's going to be contained on that list? And I guess more importantly, December 8 and December 9, what do we need to look for as we move forward in the days after that point?

WILSON: Well, I think in the days after December 7, whatever Saddam produces on his list will have to be, will have to be matched up against what we and other friendly intelligence services may have on Iraq's active programs in weapons of mass destruction and in missile development, after which I suspect that there will be a concerted effort to go in and assess the discrepancies. In other words, we will have one set of information, Saddam will have produced another set. We'll try and match up the two sets. I suspect that that will be what goes on between then and the end of January.

HEMMER: All very int -- the end of January?

WILSON: I think January 26 is the other key date.

HEMMER: So you think no military action until the end of January at the earliest?

WILSON: Well, military action, I think that if you take the president at his word when he says zero tolerance, and I do, there could well be military action directed at any obstacles that Saddam poses. That would be, it seems to me, within the parameters that the president has identified.

HEMMER: All right, listen...

WILSON: In terms of a broad forcible disarmament campaign or a so-called regime change campaign, I think that that will probably be a little bit later into the new year.

HEMMER: Ken Pollack, the author who wrote "The Threatening Storm," was with us yesterday. He believes right now there is no movement seen right now on behalf of the Iraqi military, which leads him to conclude that Saddam Hussein does think, again, that he can avoid some sort of military conflict.

Do you see it the same way right now?

WILSON: Oh, I think that's part of it. I think clearly Saddam is playing the diplomatic game, assuming that at some point the international community will lack the will to support a U.S. ground invasion. At the same time, I suspect he's adopting more of a rope a dope strategy where he will understand that his best chance of defeating a U.S. invasion will be in an urban warfare type environment.

HEMMER: Thank you, Ambassador.

Ambassador Joseph Wilson once again with us in D.C.

Always a pleasure to talk to you.

WILSON: A pleasure.

HEMMER: All right, here's Daryn.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com