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American Morning

Interview with Peter Brooks

Aired December 03, 2002 - 09:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Now, to al Qaeda's apparent claim of responsibility for the attacks in Kenya late last week. U.S. officials say they cannot confirm it, but they are taking it very seriously, that's the claim on the Web site.
And officials say there is mounting evidence that the missile launchers used to fire on an Israeli jet could be linked to al Qaeda.

From D.C., Peter Brooks is with the Heritage Foundation, he is our guest to talk about these topics and more. Good to see you, Peter, good morning to you as well.

PETER BROOKS, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Good morning.

HEMMER: These serial numbers very close, apparently, to the same shoulder-fired missiles back in May at a U.S. base in Saudi Arabia, conclusive enough for you or not?

BROOKS: Well, it's certainly possible. These things can change hands. It could be a coincidence. But generally, these weapons are produced in lots, and the serial numbers, if they are close, probably came from the same point of origin. But like I said, they could have changed hands many times. But considering the fact that Osama bin Laden has said that he wanted U.S. forces out of Saudi Arabia, and in his most recent public appearance or video or audio, he talked about Israel. I think that these things certainly could be connected.

HEMMER: Take a look at this quote. Apparently, it is being linked to al Qaeda. This was on the Web site. We'll share viewers part of the message, anyway -- says "These two operations," the one in Mombasa, "put thousands of question marks and exclamation points in front of the allied countries that spent millions on programs to protect airplanes from the inside. Here are the fighters attacking them from the outside."

That's the quote we got off the Web site. What -- an obvious question here, it indicates, apparently, that again they are trying to incite fear, and trying to indicate that they can strike anywhere in the world. Your thoughts on that statement, and more or what?

BROOKS: Yes, I think that this is certainly a thing -- we know -- a problem. We know al Qaeda has trained with these weapons, they have talked about deploying them throughout the world. These are large targets which create fear, they could have catastrophic results, going killing 200 or so people. It is very hard to, at this point, for civilian airliners to defend against it. This is a heat-seeking missile. It's good against low or slow and low-flying targets, such as an airplane taking off or landing with a large heat signature, such as something coming from the engine. So I think this certainly could be a tactic of al Qaeda, or even other terrorist organizations.

HEMMER: Peter, let me ask you this. I don't mean to sound crass with this question. Why do you think the missile missed?

BROOKS: Well, I think there is probably a couple of things. First of all, it could be training. The missiles could be old. The other thing is that it is warm in Kenya. Remember, this is a heat seeker, so it's looking for a heat source. This individual could have been firing towards the sun, for instance, where the sun may be a hotter source.

In fact, one of the ways we defend against these things is with flares. Aircraft landing or taking off will shoot off flares, and then instead of seeing the engine, the missile sees the flares, which a more intense heat source, so it could have been bad training, a bad missile. He could have fired into the sun, and it could have been that the engine, because it was just taking off, and the difference between the engine and the ambient temperature in Africa, where it is warm, was not enough for the missile to find its target.

HEMMER: How big is the concern, do you believe, right now, for people in the know about the widespread proliferation of these shoulder-fired missiles possibly coming, not just in Eastern Africa, but maybe this country as well?

BROOKS: Well, I think overseas, the threat is much greater, and we've been concerned about this. We tried to buy back Stingers that we used -- that were used in Afghanistan by the mujahideen in the '80s. We tried to buy them back before we went into Afghanistan this time from them to ensure they are not around. They are around. They are cheap. They can be bought for several thousand dollars.

HEMMER: How many are there, Peter.

BROOKS: Well, I think there are probably between hundreds and thousands.

HEMMER: Hundreds and thousands.

BROOKS: No. Between hundreds and thousands, not hundreds of thousands.

HEMMER: Right, right, but you're talking 1,000, you are talking 2,000, what?

BROOKS: Sure. I think that is certainly possible that there could be several thousand of these things around the world. They were produced by China, they were produced by the Soviet Union. Eastern European states that were under the Soviet Union, Pakistan, Egypt, so these things have proliferated, and they are a weapon of choice. They have been used in a lot of local conflicts over the years, and have taken down other passenger liners. In fact, I think there have been 58 incidents.

HEMMER: Wow, 58 in total. Over how many years would you say?

BROOKS: Yes. I would say since the 1970s when these things were first being used. In fact, Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka brought down an airliner a few years ago using this weapon.

HEMMER: There was a piece in the 'New York Times" I want to draw your attention to right now, that apparently there is some caution going out from the White House to Israel. They have about three hundred investigators on the ground in Mombasa. They want to take a lot of this evidence back to Israel.

They think their forensic testing is much more superior than they can find in Kenya, but the U.S., once again, may be cautioning Israel to hold back in terms of retaliation. How is that picture going to play out, knowing what we saw in early 1991 when the U.S. was urging the Israelis not to hit back at Saddam Hussein when those Scuds were flying in?

BROOKS: Well, I think this is different. Israel is always under terrorist threat. I initially thought this may have been Hezbollah, but now, seeing some of the evidence that you have just laid out, Bill, I think it probably is Osama bin Laden. They are going to have to find out who it is, they are going to want to know the source of this, but remember, the missiles are just symptomatic of the problem. The real problem is the scourge of terrorism.

Once we get rid of the terrorists, which is going to be a tough job, we will get rid of the instruments that they use. Whether it's suicide bombers, whether it is car bombs, or even surface-to-air missiles. I think Israel has very much in its right to go after the terrorists in this case, once they find who it is.

HEMMER: Good to talk to you, Peter. Come on back, all right. Peter Brooks, in D.C.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 3, 2002 - 09:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Now, to al Qaeda's apparent claim of responsibility for the attacks in Kenya late last week. U.S. officials say they cannot confirm it, but they are taking it very seriously, that's the claim on the Web site.
And officials say there is mounting evidence that the missile launchers used to fire on an Israeli jet could be linked to al Qaeda.

From D.C., Peter Brooks is with the Heritage Foundation, he is our guest to talk about these topics and more. Good to see you, Peter, good morning to you as well.

PETER BROOKS, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Good morning.

HEMMER: These serial numbers very close, apparently, to the same shoulder-fired missiles back in May at a U.S. base in Saudi Arabia, conclusive enough for you or not?

BROOKS: Well, it's certainly possible. These things can change hands. It could be a coincidence. But generally, these weapons are produced in lots, and the serial numbers, if they are close, probably came from the same point of origin. But like I said, they could have changed hands many times. But considering the fact that Osama bin Laden has said that he wanted U.S. forces out of Saudi Arabia, and in his most recent public appearance or video or audio, he talked about Israel. I think that these things certainly could be connected.

HEMMER: Take a look at this quote. Apparently, it is being linked to al Qaeda. This was on the Web site. We'll share viewers part of the message, anyway -- says "These two operations," the one in Mombasa, "put thousands of question marks and exclamation points in front of the allied countries that spent millions on programs to protect airplanes from the inside. Here are the fighters attacking them from the outside."

That's the quote we got off the Web site. What -- an obvious question here, it indicates, apparently, that again they are trying to incite fear, and trying to indicate that they can strike anywhere in the world. Your thoughts on that statement, and more or what?

BROOKS: Yes, I think that this is certainly a thing -- we know -- a problem. We know al Qaeda has trained with these weapons, they have talked about deploying them throughout the world. These are large targets which create fear, they could have catastrophic results, going killing 200 or so people. It is very hard to, at this point, for civilian airliners to defend against it. This is a heat-seeking missile. It's good against low or slow and low-flying targets, such as an airplane taking off or landing with a large heat signature, such as something coming from the engine. So I think this certainly could be a tactic of al Qaeda, or even other terrorist organizations.

HEMMER: Peter, let me ask you this. I don't mean to sound crass with this question. Why do you think the missile missed?

BROOKS: Well, I think there is probably a couple of things. First of all, it could be training. The missiles could be old. The other thing is that it is warm in Kenya. Remember, this is a heat seeker, so it's looking for a heat source. This individual could have been firing towards the sun, for instance, where the sun may be a hotter source.

In fact, one of the ways we defend against these things is with flares. Aircraft landing or taking off will shoot off flares, and then instead of seeing the engine, the missile sees the flares, which a more intense heat source, so it could have been bad training, a bad missile. He could have fired into the sun, and it could have been that the engine, because it was just taking off, and the difference between the engine and the ambient temperature in Africa, where it is warm, was not enough for the missile to find its target.

HEMMER: How big is the concern, do you believe, right now, for people in the know about the widespread proliferation of these shoulder-fired missiles possibly coming, not just in Eastern Africa, but maybe this country as well?

BROOKS: Well, I think overseas, the threat is much greater, and we've been concerned about this. We tried to buy back Stingers that we used -- that were used in Afghanistan by the mujahideen in the '80s. We tried to buy them back before we went into Afghanistan this time from them to ensure they are not around. They are around. They are cheap. They can be bought for several thousand dollars.

HEMMER: How many are there, Peter.

BROOKS: Well, I think there are probably between hundreds and thousands.

HEMMER: Hundreds and thousands.

BROOKS: No. Between hundreds and thousands, not hundreds of thousands.

HEMMER: Right, right, but you're talking 1,000, you are talking 2,000, what?

BROOKS: Sure. I think that is certainly possible that there could be several thousand of these things around the world. They were produced by China, they were produced by the Soviet Union. Eastern European states that were under the Soviet Union, Pakistan, Egypt, so these things have proliferated, and they are a weapon of choice. They have been used in a lot of local conflicts over the years, and have taken down other passenger liners. In fact, I think there have been 58 incidents.

HEMMER: Wow, 58 in total. Over how many years would you say?

BROOKS: Yes. I would say since the 1970s when these things were first being used. In fact, Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka brought down an airliner a few years ago using this weapon.

HEMMER: There was a piece in the 'New York Times" I want to draw your attention to right now, that apparently there is some caution going out from the White House to Israel. They have about three hundred investigators on the ground in Mombasa. They want to take a lot of this evidence back to Israel.

They think their forensic testing is much more superior than they can find in Kenya, but the U.S., once again, may be cautioning Israel to hold back in terms of retaliation. How is that picture going to play out, knowing what we saw in early 1991 when the U.S. was urging the Israelis not to hit back at Saddam Hussein when those Scuds were flying in?

BROOKS: Well, I think this is different. Israel is always under terrorist threat. I initially thought this may have been Hezbollah, but now, seeing some of the evidence that you have just laid out, Bill, I think it probably is Osama bin Laden. They are going to have to find out who it is, they are going to want to know the source of this, but remember, the missiles are just symptomatic of the problem. The real problem is the scourge of terrorism.

Once we get rid of the terrorists, which is going to be a tough job, we will get rid of the instruments that they use. Whether it's suicide bombers, whether it is car bombs, or even surface-to-air missiles. I think Israel has very much in its right to go after the terrorists in this case, once they find who it is.

HEMMER: Good to talk to you, Peter. Come on back, all right. Peter Brooks, in D.C.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com