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American Morning
Interview With Richard Butler
Aired December 04, 2002 - 07:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In Baghdad, meanwhile, the U.N. teams today headed to a remote desert location. The first seven days of those searches noted missing equipment, but no evidence of weapons of mass destruction, so we are told.
The White House criticizing the process, pressing the U.N. for a wider variety of inspections and more inspectors to carry them out.
Let's get back to Sydney, Australia, yet again today, the former chief U.N. weapons inspector, Richard Butler, the man who knows this all too well from his experience there on the ground in Iraq.
Richard, welcome back to you -- good to see you.
RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Does the White House have a point when they're pressing the U.N. to conduct more searches and do it with more men on the ground there, in addition to the 100 that will be there within the week?
BUTLER: Bill, quite frankly, I don't think it does. It's very important to recollect that the United States, the administration, decided to take this issue to the U.N., all the while saying in the background that if the U.N. doesn't do it, the U.S. will deal with Saddam, deal with Iraq in its own way.
Now, having done that, having taken the matter to the U.N., I think they should exercise care to allow the inspectors to do what they're doing this first couple of weeks, which is checking baselines, checking data from the past, seeing what was moved in the four years without inspections, and doing their job, waiting for the crucial thing, which is Iraq's declaration to come on the weekend. On Saturday, Iraq will lodge its declaration that will say whether or not it has weapons of mass destruction.
That declaration is the critical document, after which the inspection process will go to what I call the serious phase, not just the baseline phase, but the serious phase of verifying whether or not Iraq's claim that it has no such weapons is true or false.
HEMMER: Let's get more on those documents right now. We're getting some word that it could be several thousand pages in length. Some officials are even saying...
BUTLER: Right. HEMMER: ... that it will take four or five days to sift through all of the information. What do you anticipate to be contained in there later in the week?
BUTLER: Bill, Iraq has lodged documents like this in the past, because it was required to do so. This one is more important than any document it's ever produced, because this one is on the background, where the Security Council has said, you will tell the truth, you will cooperate now, or it's curtains for you. That's what the council has essentially said.
I expect that the Iraqi document will be not dissimilar from those of the past, one of the characteristics of which has been, you know, a whole truckload of information. I mean, thousands of pages, stuff that's almost eye glazing to read. In a way, Iraq tries to bury reality in detail.
But I also expect -- and Iraq has already said in the last 48 hours -- I also expect that this document will have a difference in that they know that they're under a requirement now that is different from any prior one. And they will, I believe, admit that they have done things in the last few years that they had not previously acknowledged.
Whether that will, however, say that they have weapons of mass destruction, I frankly doubt, Bill, because they're still maintaining the line that they have no such weapons, and you know, that's when the game will move into the second phase. Study of this document is going to take some time.
HEMMER: Richard, help me synchronize this. Kofi Annan is already saying that the Iraqis are providing extensive cooperation. The president, under no uncertain terms, almost on a daily basis, says it is not cooperating right now, or not cooperating to an acceptable level. Colin Powell is somewhere in the middle, saying it will take a couple of weeks before we can truly discern whether or not there is cooperation.
Where is the truth in these three scenarios?
BUTLER: Well, it's not a personality team, Bill, but to answer the question in the way that you've put, I'd go with Colin Powell. I think the president is out there stating the maximum position, which, you know, let's leave that aside, and maybe that's what he's there to do. But that is what he is doing.
The secretary-general has a track record in dealing with Iraq of talking the situation out and saying it's better than it looks. I have a little doubt about that.
Colin Powell, I think, is right. Up to a point, Iraq has shown cooperation, but it's not been around truly serious things. That will happen when we have their declaration.
So, I would go with that middle position.
HEMMER: Got it.
BUTLER: So far, so good, but you know, it's not yet really serious. That will start next week.
HEMMER: I don't mean to push you along and be rude here, but only about 15 seconds left right now.
BUTLER: Sure.
HEMMER: I want to put on the screen one of the quotes we got from one of the inspectors from the U.N. This is the presidential palace, the first time ever they went in yesterday. They say, "Our inspectors were able to inspect every corner of the presidential palace."
You said it yourself, this place is huge. Is that naive to say in 90 minutes' time, you can get to every corner inside there, or not?
BUTLER: Absolutely. The only thing I would need to know is, did they take their radar equipment with them, so they could get inside the walls and into the basements. If they didn't, it's of no value. If they just simply walked around every nook and cranny, nice to see the marble, but that's not a serious inspection.
HEMMER: Thanks you, Richard -- Richard Butler again live in Sydney.
BUTLER: OK.
HEMMER: We will talk again tomorrow.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired December 4, 2002 - 07:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In Baghdad, meanwhile, the U.N. teams today headed to a remote desert location. The first seven days of those searches noted missing equipment, but no evidence of weapons of mass destruction, so we are told.
The White House criticizing the process, pressing the U.N. for a wider variety of inspections and more inspectors to carry them out.
Let's get back to Sydney, Australia, yet again today, the former chief U.N. weapons inspector, Richard Butler, the man who knows this all too well from his experience there on the ground in Iraq.
Richard, welcome back to you -- good to see you.
RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Does the White House have a point when they're pressing the U.N. to conduct more searches and do it with more men on the ground there, in addition to the 100 that will be there within the week?
BUTLER: Bill, quite frankly, I don't think it does. It's very important to recollect that the United States, the administration, decided to take this issue to the U.N., all the while saying in the background that if the U.N. doesn't do it, the U.S. will deal with Saddam, deal with Iraq in its own way.
Now, having done that, having taken the matter to the U.N., I think they should exercise care to allow the inspectors to do what they're doing this first couple of weeks, which is checking baselines, checking data from the past, seeing what was moved in the four years without inspections, and doing their job, waiting for the crucial thing, which is Iraq's declaration to come on the weekend. On Saturday, Iraq will lodge its declaration that will say whether or not it has weapons of mass destruction.
That declaration is the critical document, after which the inspection process will go to what I call the serious phase, not just the baseline phase, but the serious phase of verifying whether or not Iraq's claim that it has no such weapons is true or false.
HEMMER: Let's get more on those documents right now. We're getting some word that it could be several thousand pages in length. Some officials are even saying...
BUTLER: Right. HEMMER: ... that it will take four or five days to sift through all of the information. What do you anticipate to be contained in there later in the week?
BUTLER: Bill, Iraq has lodged documents like this in the past, because it was required to do so. This one is more important than any document it's ever produced, because this one is on the background, where the Security Council has said, you will tell the truth, you will cooperate now, or it's curtains for you. That's what the council has essentially said.
I expect that the Iraqi document will be not dissimilar from those of the past, one of the characteristics of which has been, you know, a whole truckload of information. I mean, thousands of pages, stuff that's almost eye glazing to read. In a way, Iraq tries to bury reality in detail.
But I also expect -- and Iraq has already said in the last 48 hours -- I also expect that this document will have a difference in that they know that they're under a requirement now that is different from any prior one. And they will, I believe, admit that they have done things in the last few years that they had not previously acknowledged.
Whether that will, however, say that they have weapons of mass destruction, I frankly doubt, Bill, because they're still maintaining the line that they have no such weapons, and you know, that's when the game will move into the second phase. Study of this document is going to take some time.
HEMMER: Richard, help me synchronize this. Kofi Annan is already saying that the Iraqis are providing extensive cooperation. The president, under no uncertain terms, almost on a daily basis, says it is not cooperating right now, or not cooperating to an acceptable level. Colin Powell is somewhere in the middle, saying it will take a couple of weeks before we can truly discern whether or not there is cooperation.
Where is the truth in these three scenarios?
BUTLER: Well, it's not a personality team, Bill, but to answer the question in the way that you've put, I'd go with Colin Powell. I think the president is out there stating the maximum position, which, you know, let's leave that aside, and maybe that's what he's there to do. But that is what he is doing.
The secretary-general has a track record in dealing with Iraq of talking the situation out and saying it's better than it looks. I have a little doubt about that.
Colin Powell, I think, is right. Up to a point, Iraq has shown cooperation, but it's not been around truly serious things. That will happen when we have their declaration.
So, I would go with that middle position.
HEMMER: Got it.
BUTLER: So far, so good, but you know, it's not yet really serious. That will start next week.
HEMMER: I don't mean to push you along and be rude here, but only about 15 seconds left right now.
BUTLER: Sure.
HEMMER: I want to put on the screen one of the quotes we got from one of the inspectors from the U.N. This is the presidential palace, the first time ever they went in yesterday. They say, "Our inspectors were able to inspect every corner of the presidential palace."
You said it yourself, this place is huge. Is that naive to say in 90 minutes' time, you can get to every corner inside there, or not?
BUTLER: Absolutely. The only thing I would need to know is, did they take their radar equipment with them, so they could get inside the walls and into the basements. If they didn't, it's of no value. If they just simply walked around every nook and cranny, nice to see the marble, but that's not a serious inspection.
HEMMER: Thanks you, Richard -- Richard Butler again live in Sydney.
BUTLER: OK.
HEMMER: We will talk again tomorrow.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
