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American Morning
Interview with Daniel Benjamin
Aired December 05, 2002 - 09:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: To the war on terror right now, and the global reach of al Qaeda, President Bush said yesterday he believes the terror group was behind the attacks last Thanksgiving on Israeli targets in Kenya.
Meanwhile, though, authorities in Indonesia arrested a suspected leader of the Islamic militants blamed for the October nightclub bombing in Bali, 180 dead there.
Daniel Benjamin of the Center for Strategic and International Studies is our guest this morning. He is also co-author of "The Age of Sacred Terror." He is live in D.C.
Good to have you back with us, Daniel. Good morning to you.
DANIEL BENJAMIN, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Good morning.
HEMMER: Let's listen to President Bush in his words from yesterday at the White House regarding al Qaeda.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe that al Qaeda was involved in the African bombings in Kenya. I believe al Qaeda hates freedom. I believe al Qaeda will strike anywhere they can in order to disrupt a civil society, and that's why we're on the hunt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Daniel, if this plays out the way the White House talks about it right now, what's the significance of Israelis now being targeted by al Qaeda?
BENJAMIN: It's very significant with regard to al Qaeda's effort to claim leadership in the Islamic world. Al Qaeda has been trying to get a piece of the action, if you will, of the Arab-Israeli conflict since 1999 when bin Laden and other leaders saw that the second intifada was on screens throughout the Islamic world, and recognized that was really the big story, and that it needed to be part of that. To the extent that this validates their claim, I think it could attract more support for al Qaeda.
HEMMER: If that's the case, and they've been trying for three years right now, why have they not been successful on that front?
BENJAMIN: I think part of it has been a difficulty in linking up with Palestinian groups. There have been some connections with Hamas operatives, there has also been very good police and intelligence work in Israel, in Turkey, in Jordan. There have been a number of cases where the -- where there were disruptions. It's harder -- Israel is a harder target than it often seems from the daily litany of suicide bombings.
HEMMER: It was about two and a half hours ago that Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, came out and said he believes there is a small number of al Qaeda operatives right now operating out of Gaza. What to make of that, Daniel?
BENJAMIN: Well, it is very worrisome indeed. There have been discussions of cells in the West Bank and Gaza for a few years, and we know, for example, that Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, was doing surveillance in Israel for an al Qaeda attack. So this is nothing new. But we need to worry that it will escalate.
Remember, al Qaeda is also -- it has sort of a parallel strategy to Iraq, in that it will want to drag Israel into the greater confrontation that is going on right now between the United States and Iraq, and paint the U.S. and Israel as just the two sharpest prongs of the Western crusade against Islam. So, to the extent that that occurs, it will complicate American policy vis-a-vis Iraq, and make it very hard for the U.S. to get its message about Saddam Hussein specifically across.
HEMMER: Very interesting, I think that comment really takes us into our next point right here. Last week, the "L.A. Times," a former CIA officer, Robert Bear (ph) said, -- and quoting now, in fact, we'll put it up on the screen here.
"I think the closer we get to war with Iraq, there is going to be more and more attacks."
I am assuming, based on your answer, that you would believe with this statement?
BENJAMIN: Well, I've been saying much the same thing for quite awhile, and in fact, I think that the spate of attacks that we've seen recently is due, in part, to al Qaeda's desire to show that it is very much a player, it is very much the champion of true Muslims, as the confrontation sharpens.
I think that part of the reason we've seen as many attacks against so-called "soft" targets recently is that al Qaeda wants to step up its operational pace, and show that it is really defending the interests of Muslims around the world. I think there is no question about that.
HEMMER: Daniel, I'm out of time here, but I want to go back to something you said here earlier, and you said it, actually, to our producers yesterday.
You don't believe al Qaeda has been successful in many ways in hooking up with Hamas. Why is that again, then, that the efforts have been made and Hamas has essentially rebuked that organization? BENJAMIN: We don't know the full extent of the rebuke, but I think that there are more pragmatic elements in Hamas that know that if -- if it carried out -- the group carried out an al Qaeda-style attack, catastrophic attack that blew up, for example, the Asraeli Tower (ph), which has been surveilled, it is the largest building in Israel, that the repercussions would be overwhelming, and not only from the Israeli side, but also from the Palestinian authority, which has given Hamas a certain amount of leash, and allowed it to carry on some of its terror attacks.
But if the scale of attacks got out of control, then this would really have enormous impact on the entire Palestinian cause.
HEMMER: Thank you, Daniel. That building, by the way, in Tel Aviv, and long suspected within Israel as possibly being a target at some point. Thanks for the clarification. Good to talk to you. Daniel Benjamin in D.C.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 5, 2002 - 09:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: To the war on terror right now, and the global reach of al Qaeda, President Bush said yesterday he believes the terror group was behind the attacks last Thanksgiving on Israeli targets in Kenya.
Meanwhile, though, authorities in Indonesia arrested a suspected leader of the Islamic militants blamed for the October nightclub bombing in Bali, 180 dead there.
Daniel Benjamin of the Center for Strategic and International Studies is our guest this morning. He is also co-author of "The Age of Sacred Terror." He is live in D.C.
Good to have you back with us, Daniel. Good morning to you.
DANIEL BENJAMIN, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Good morning.
HEMMER: Let's listen to President Bush in his words from yesterday at the White House regarding al Qaeda.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe that al Qaeda was involved in the African bombings in Kenya. I believe al Qaeda hates freedom. I believe al Qaeda will strike anywhere they can in order to disrupt a civil society, and that's why we're on the hunt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Daniel, if this plays out the way the White House talks about it right now, what's the significance of Israelis now being targeted by al Qaeda?
BENJAMIN: It's very significant with regard to al Qaeda's effort to claim leadership in the Islamic world. Al Qaeda has been trying to get a piece of the action, if you will, of the Arab-Israeli conflict since 1999 when bin Laden and other leaders saw that the second intifada was on screens throughout the Islamic world, and recognized that was really the big story, and that it needed to be part of that. To the extent that this validates their claim, I think it could attract more support for al Qaeda.
HEMMER: If that's the case, and they've been trying for three years right now, why have they not been successful on that front?
BENJAMIN: I think part of it has been a difficulty in linking up with Palestinian groups. There have been some connections with Hamas operatives, there has also been very good police and intelligence work in Israel, in Turkey, in Jordan. There have been a number of cases where the -- where there were disruptions. It's harder -- Israel is a harder target than it often seems from the daily litany of suicide bombings.
HEMMER: It was about two and a half hours ago that Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, came out and said he believes there is a small number of al Qaeda operatives right now operating out of Gaza. What to make of that, Daniel?
BENJAMIN: Well, it is very worrisome indeed. There have been discussions of cells in the West Bank and Gaza for a few years, and we know, for example, that Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, was doing surveillance in Israel for an al Qaeda attack. So this is nothing new. But we need to worry that it will escalate.
Remember, al Qaeda is also -- it has sort of a parallel strategy to Iraq, in that it will want to drag Israel into the greater confrontation that is going on right now between the United States and Iraq, and paint the U.S. and Israel as just the two sharpest prongs of the Western crusade against Islam. So, to the extent that that occurs, it will complicate American policy vis-a-vis Iraq, and make it very hard for the U.S. to get its message about Saddam Hussein specifically across.
HEMMER: Very interesting, I think that comment really takes us into our next point right here. Last week, the "L.A. Times," a former CIA officer, Robert Bear (ph) said, -- and quoting now, in fact, we'll put it up on the screen here.
"I think the closer we get to war with Iraq, there is going to be more and more attacks."
I am assuming, based on your answer, that you would believe with this statement?
BENJAMIN: Well, I've been saying much the same thing for quite awhile, and in fact, I think that the spate of attacks that we've seen recently is due, in part, to al Qaeda's desire to show that it is very much a player, it is very much the champion of true Muslims, as the confrontation sharpens.
I think that part of the reason we've seen as many attacks against so-called "soft" targets recently is that al Qaeda wants to step up its operational pace, and show that it is really defending the interests of Muslims around the world. I think there is no question about that.
HEMMER: Daniel, I'm out of time here, but I want to go back to something you said here earlier, and you said it, actually, to our producers yesterday.
You don't believe al Qaeda has been successful in many ways in hooking up with Hamas. Why is that again, then, that the efforts have been made and Hamas has essentially rebuked that organization? BENJAMIN: We don't know the full extent of the rebuke, but I think that there are more pragmatic elements in Hamas that know that if -- if it carried out -- the group carried out an al Qaeda-style attack, catastrophic attack that blew up, for example, the Asraeli Tower (ph), which has been surveilled, it is the largest building in Israel, that the repercussions would be overwhelming, and not only from the Israeli side, but also from the Palestinian authority, which has given Hamas a certain amount of leash, and allowed it to carry on some of its terror attacks.
But if the scale of attacks got out of control, then this would really have enormous impact on the entire Palestinian cause.
HEMMER: Thank you, Daniel. That building, by the way, in Tel Aviv, and long suspected within Israel as possibly being a target at some point. Thanks for the clarification. Good to talk to you. Daniel Benjamin in D.C.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
