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American Morning

Interview with Jonathan Tucker

Aired December 06, 2002 - 08:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: More now on Iraq, especially here in New York City at the U.N. across town. The crucial weapons declaration documents will be hand carried by a U.N. official from Baghdad, eventually arriving here in New York City.
Michael Okwu standing by at the U.N. now with more on when that list arrives and what we can expect -- what's happening today, Michael?

Good morning.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Well, Bill, we can expect a lot. Basically we know that this document is going to be handed to U.N. officials in Baghdad on Saturday. Then it will be hand carried by plane, of course, back here to the United Nations in New York, where it will be viewed by the Security Council.

Now, the document is expected to be, have a lot of information in it. Why? Well, basically we understand that the declaration is some 13,000 pages long, mostly, if not completely all in Arabic. We know that it should include a history of Iraq's past chemical, biological and nuclear programs, as well as its programs for long range ballistic missiles. It should also detail Iraq's current industrial or civilian activities in those areas, what's commonly referred to as dual use facilities. For example, a facility that may have chlorine used for water purification but then some of that material may be diverted over for making chemical arms.

Basically, in essence, the Security Council is asking for a comprehensive list of past, present and possible weapons development. And you can bet that intelligence agencies around the world, particularly in Washington, will compare that list with its own information. After all, paragraph four of the U.N. Resolution 1444 specifically states that, "False statements of omissions in the declaration submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations and will be reported to the Security Council for assessment."

Of course, material breach is a possible target or trigger for military action. We understand that this morning Hans Blix will be talking to the Security Council. One of the things we expect that he will be doing, along with providing his regularly scheduled quarterly report, is trying to figure out just how, when, where the documents will come and what they will do with those 13,000 pages after they receive it. One other thing, Bill, expect that somewhere in this long document the Iraqis will say what they've been saying all along, which is that we do not have any weapons of mass destruction -- Bill.

HEMMER: Michael, thanks.

We'll all know soon.

Michael Okwu at the U.N.

And to hear Saddam Hussein say it, Iraq does not have weapons of mass destruction to declare. But the White House, though, says it has solid evidence to the contrary.

From D.C. right now to talk more about the inspections and Iraq's upcoming statement, former U.N. inspector Jonathan Tucker is back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Good morning to you. Nice to see you.

JONATHAN TUCKER, FORMER WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning.

HEMMER: Listening to Michael Okwu's report, there's another question here that's really been developing over this past week -- we heard the president mention it a couple of months ago -- which essentially amounts to a witness protection agency to allow some Iraqis to be taken out of the country and then questioned at that point for their own safety.

Do you see this materializing right now? Because at this point we have really not have seen that.

TUCKER: I think what may happen is Iraqi scientists who wish to come forward and volunteer information may be willing to be, actually request to be taken out of the country with their families in order to ensure their safety. I think it will be difficult, however, for the U.N. to force Iraqi scientists to leave the country against their will. So we may see some middle ground emerging.

Thus far, Hans Blix has been very reticent about this option.

HEMMER: You say one of the keys right now that really has put inspectors on their heels is they have not been given U.S. intelligence information in order to take that information and go about the proper search in Iraq. Why has that not happened and will that position change, Jonathan?

TUCKER: I think one of the reasons the U.S. has been reluctant to provide information is fears that it might leak out prematurely and enable the Iraqis to tailor their declaration to what they believe the U.S. already knows. So what they want is for the Iraqis to make the declaration first and then try to trap Iraq in a lie. So I believe they are more likely to release the information after Iraq has submitted its declaration.

HEMMER: You know, Jonathan, in a generic sense, what do you make so far, based on the little information we have, about how the inspectors are doing this time around?

TUCKER: Well, I think they've been doing a good job thus far. They have been going to, largely to sites that had been visited in the past, though they did visit a presidential palace in order to confirm the right of the inspectorate to go to very sensitive sites. And even though Iraq has expressed concern and resentment about the fact that the inspectors did target a presidential palace, their actions speak louder than their words. They did comply with that request.

HEMMER: Yes, what do you think -- would you want to be on this team right now, Jonathan? Would you want to be in Iraq scouring that country?

TUCKER: Well, it's a very challenging task, but I think it's a very exciting task for the inspectors on the ground. Of course, they're being buffeted by political winds from both directions. But I think the fact that the inspectors are being criticized both by the Bush administration and by Iraq suggests that they're probably doing a good job.

HEMMER: Well, when you were there, then, how many inspectors were in Iraq?

TUCKER: Well, the, there were monitoring teams which were in country for several months at a time then visiting teams which would come in for specific missions. So it was a different personnel structure than what UNMOVIC has now in the country. The inspectors will be in country for anywhere from three to nine months, on an average four months at a time. There will be 35 inspectors arriving this weekend and roughly a hundred by the end of the year.

HEMMER: And that takes me to my point, a hundred, more or less than when you were there, and is a hundred enough?

TUCKER: Well, a hundred is probably not enough to do multiple inspections at the same time throughout the country. So if the U.S. and other member countries want the inspectors to get the job done in a relatively short amount of time, they will have to provide more resources, more inspectors, more equipment and good intelligence to enable the inspectors to target their efforts and leverage their limited resources.

HEMMER: All those questions take us into an entirely new segment that we will get to eventually, I'm certain.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Jonathan Tucker, former U.N. inspector, in Washington.

Have a good weekend, OK?

TUCKER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 6, 2002 - 08:02   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: More now on Iraq, especially here in New York City at the U.N. across town. The crucial weapons declaration documents will be hand carried by a U.N. official from Baghdad, eventually arriving here in New York City.
Michael Okwu standing by at the U.N. now with more on when that list arrives and what we can expect -- what's happening today, Michael?

Good morning.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Well, Bill, we can expect a lot. Basically we know that this document is going to be handed to U.N. officials in Baghdad on Saturday. Then it will be hand carried by plane, of course, back here to the United Nations in New York, where it will be viewed by the Security Council.

Now, the document is expected to be, have a lot of information in it. Why? Well, basically we understand that the declaration is some 13,000 pages long, mostly, if not completely all in Arabic. We know that it should include a history of Iraq's past chemical, biological and nuclear programs, as well as its programs for long range ballistic missiles. It should also detail Iraq's current industrial or civilian activities in those areas, what's commonly referred to as dual use facilities. For example, a facility that may have chlorine used for water purification but then some of that material may be diverted over for making chemical arms.

Basically, in essence, the Security Council is asking for a comprehensive list of past, present and possible weapons development. And you can bet that intelligence agencies around the world, particularly in Washington, will compare that list with its own information. After all, paragraph four of the U.N. Resolution 1444 specifically states that, "False statements of omissions in the declaration submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations and will be reported to the Security Council for assessment."

Of course, material breach is a possible target or trigger for military action. We understand that this morning Hans Blix will be talking to the Security Council. One of the things we expect that he will be doing, along with providing his regularly scheduled quarterly report, is trying to figure out just how, when, where the documents will come and what they will do with those 13,000 pages after they receive it. One other thing, Bill, expect that somewhere in this long document the Iraqis will say what they've been saying all along, which is that we do not have any weapons of mass destruction -- Bill.

HEMMER: Michael, thanks.

We'll all know soon.

Michael Okwu at the U.N.

And to hear Saddam Hussein say it, Iraq does not have weapons of mass destruction to declare. But the White House, though, says it has solid evidence to the contrary.

From D.C. right now to talk more about the inspections and Iraq's upcoming statement, former U.N. inspector Jonathan Tucker is back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Good morning to you. Nice to see you.

JONATHAN TUCKER, FORMER WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning.

HEMMER: Listening to Michael Okwu's report, there's another question here that's really been developing over this past week -- we heard the president mention it a couple of months ago -- which essentially amounts to a witness protection agency to allow some Iraqis to be taken out of the country and then questioned at that point for their own safety.

Do you see this materializing right now? Because at this point we have really not have seen that.

TUCKER: I think what may happen is Iraqi scientists who wish to come forward and volunteer information may be willing to be, actually request to be taken out of the country with their families in order to ensure their safety. I think it will be difficult, however, for the U.N. to force Iraqi scientists to leave the country against their will. So we may see some middle ground emerging.

Thus far, Hans Blix has been very reticent about this option.

HEMMER: You say one of the keys right now that really has put inspectors on their heels is they have not been given U.S. intelligence information in order to take that information and go about the proper search in Iraq. Why has that not happened and will that position change, Jonathan?

TUCKER: I think one of the reasons the U.S. has been reluctant to provide information is fears that it might leak out prematurely and enable the Iraqis to tailor their declaration to what they believe the U.S. already knows. So what they want is for the Iraqis to make the declaration first and then try to trap Iraq in a lie. So I believe they are more likely to release the information after Iraq has submitted its declaration.

HEMMER: You know, Jonathan, in a generic sense, what do you make so far, based on the little information we have, about how the inspectors are doing this time around?

TUCKER: Well, I think they've been doing a good job thus far. They have been going to, largely to sites that had been visited in the past, though they did visit a presidential palace in order to confirm the right of the inspectorate to go to very sensitive sites. And even though Iraq has expressed concern and resentment about the fact that the inspectors did target a presidential palace, their actions speak louder than their words. They did comply with that request.

HEMMER: Yes, what do you think -- would you want to be on this team right now, Jonathan? Would you want to be in Iraq scouring that country?

TUCKER: Well, it's a very challenging task, but I think it's a very exciting task for the inspectors on the ground. Of course, they're being buffeted by political winds from both directions. But I think the fact that the inspectors are being criticized both by the Bush administration and by Iraq suggests that they're probably doing a good job.

HEMMER: Well, when you were there, then, how many inspectors were in Iraq?

TUCKER: Well, the, there were monitoring teams which were in country for several months at a time then visiting teams which would come in for specific missions. So it was a different personnel structure than what UNMOVIC has now in the country. The inspectors will be in country for anywhere from three to nine months, on an average four months at a time. There will be 35 inspectors arriving this weekend and roughly a hundred by the end of the year.

HEMMER: And that takes me to my point, a hundred, more or less than when you were there, and is a hundred enough?

TUCKER: Well, a hundred is probably not enough to do multiple inspections at the same time throughout the country. So if the U.S. and other member countries want the inspectors to get the job done in a relatively short amount of time, they will have to provide more resources, more inspectors, more equipment and good intelligence to enable the inspectors to target their efforts and leverage their limited resources.

HEMMER: All those questions take us into an entirely new segment that we will get to eventually, I'm certain.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Jonathan Tucker, former U.N. inspector, in Washington.

Have a good weekend, OK?

TUCKER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com