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American Morning
Interview with Joseph Wilson
Aired December 09, 2002 - 08:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, we are going to try to decipher conflicting signals being sent by Saddam Hussein. Through a spokesman, he has apologized for Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1991, but he coupled that with an appeal to Islamic militants in Kuwait to fight the United States. He also strongly hinted that Iraq was close to having a nuclear weapon in 1991.
Here to try to help us figure out what Saddam is up to is the last U.S. diplomat to meet with Saddam, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, the former U.S. charge d'affairs in Iraq. He joins us from Washington. Good to see you again, ambassador.
JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER U.S. CHARGE D'AFFAIRS: Hi, Paula. Welcome back.
ZAHN: Thank you. So happy to be back. So what do you make of this Iraqi apology?
WILSON: Well, I think there were a number of things that struck me about it. First and foremost was the revisionist history which was inconsistent with what Saddam told me on August 6 as to why they invaded Kuwait. Secondly was the attempt on the part of Saddam to kind of split the Kuwaiti people from their government. And, thirdly, was the attempt to invoke Arab solidarity in the event of an American aggression, as he would have the world believe, against his country.
ZAHN: So come back to what Saddam told you on August 6, the date you just doled out.
WILSON: Well, basically he told me that they had invaded Kuwait because Kuwait had not forgiven debts -- credits they had extended to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war, they had not extended any more development assistance to Iraq at a time when it really needed it, and Saddam's position there was that Iraq had sacrificed its sons in defense of the Arab nation against the Persian hordes coming across the Shah Della Tah (ph), the river between the two countries.
Third, Kuwait was slant drilling and pumping oil out of an Iraqi oil field. Fourth, Kuwait was pumping and selling above its OPEC quota, which was depressing the price of petrol, price of oil, at a time when Iraq needed additional revenues.
And, fifth, Iraq wanted to have garrisons, and actually annex a couple of islands across from its only port, its only access to the Gulf, and Kuwait was not willing to entertain that, even as a trade for additional territory on the land -- on the mainland. ZAHN: Well, the Kuwaitis have made it pretty clear that they think this apology is an absolute joke, but what is it that Saddam Hussein is after with the apology?
WILSON: Well, again, I think his objective here is to lay out, not just for the Kuwaitis, but also for the Iraqis and everybody else, that he has now given to the United States, or to the U.N., the full and complete declaration, even if it is not, and as a consequence, the challenge to the United Nations to have submitted (ph) to the U.S. is to take yes for an answer.
And if the United States, its allies, and the United Nations don't take yes for an answer and continue to pursue this disarmament campaign, even to the possibility of an invasion of Iraq, then Saddam wants to have some Arab solidarity so that he can cast this as himself as the victim, and the Arab nation as a larger victim against the latest wave of Western imperialist, colonialist crusaders, whatever you want.
ZAHN: Well, based on what you believe to either be or not be in the 12,000 pages of documents, what kind of Arab solidarity do you think Saddam Hussein is going to get?
WILSON: Well, I don't think any one nation or any one government is going to want to be Saddam's last supporter. If, in fact, we go to this full-scale war.
On the other hand, there may well be, throughout the Arab and Islamic world, a sense of, once again, they've been victimized by the larger Western imperial power.
And what I worry about is that you end up having another generation of disaffected Muslim, who this time is prepared to kill and die in the name of Saddam Hussein, and that just exacerbates or war on terrorism. It doesn't help it at all.
ZAHN: Mr. Ambassador, I think everybody found quite chilling what Senator Bob Graham had to say over the weekend about the prospect of military involvement in Iraq and if, in fact, it comes to that, what he believes will be an almost certainty that there will be Iraqi terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Do you share that concern?
WILSON: Well, Senator Graham obviously has access to information I don't have, but certainly Saddam is capable of trying to mount terrorist attacks. Even during the Gulf War, there were some diplomats thrown out of the Philippines for allegedly trying to plant bombs in front of the American Embassy there. So he's certainly capable of doing it. I might note that Iraqi intelligence services, when they have engaged in these types of terrorist activities, have been extraordinarily clumsy in the past.
I remember catching an Iraqi intelligence agent in my house in Baghdad when I was there. So, they are not very subtle or sophisticated, and I suspect that if they were to, in fact, do something like that, their fingerprints would be all over it. So it's -- it would have to be an extremist, it seems to me. ZAHN: Ambassador Joseph Wilson, always appreciate your insights. Thank you, again, for dropping by this morning.
WILSON: My pleasure. It seems to me you certainly have President George H. W. Bush wrapped around your little finger, Paula.
ZAHN: Oh, you think so? Actually, he really did call me in the hospital and encouraged me not to make the trek to Washington, but -- I had made the commitment nine months ago, and I showed up. Pretty good crowd, though, right, with the vice president, Norman Schwarzkopf, head of the CIA. It was...
WILSON: I didn't get my invitation card.
ZAHN: Hey, next year, OK? Thanks, ambassador.
WILSON: All right. Thanks a lot, Paula.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 9, 2002 - 08:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, we are going to try to decipher conflicting signals being sent by Saddam Hussein. Through a spokesman, he has apologized for Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1991, but he coupled that with an appeal to Islamic militants in Kuwait to fight the United States. He also strongly hinted that Iraq was close to having a nuclear weapon in 1991.
Here to try to help us figure out what Saddam is up to is the last U.S. diplomat to meet with Saddam, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, the former U.S. charge d'affairs in Iraq. He joins us from Washington. Good to see you again, ambassador.
JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER U.S. CHARGE D'AFFAIRS: Hi, Paula. Welcome back.
ZAHN: Thank you. So happy to be back. So what do you make of this Iraqi apology?
WILSON: Well, I think there were a number of things that struck me about it. First and foremost was the revisionist history which was inconsistent with what Saddam told me on August 6 as to why they invaded Kuwait. Secondly was the attempt on the part of Saddam to kind of split the Kuwaiti people from their government. And, thirdly, was the attempt to invoke Arab solidarity in the event of an American aggression, as he would have the world believe, against his country.
ZAHN: So come back to what Saddam told you on August 6, the date you just doled out.
WILSON: Well, basically he told me that they had invaded Kuwait because Kuwait had not forgiven debts -- credits they had extended to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war, they had not extended any more development assistance to Iraq at a time when it really needed it, and Saddam's position there was that Iraq had sacrificed its sons in defense of the Arab nation against the Persian hordes coming across the Shah Della Tah (ph), the river between the two countries.
Third, Kuwait was slant drilling and pumping oil out of an Iraqi oil field. Fourth, Kuwait was pumping and selling above its OPEC quota, which was depressing the price of petrol, price of oil, at a time when Iraq needed additional revenues.
And, fifth, Iraq wanted to have garrisons, and actually annex a couple of islands across from its only port, its only access to the Gulf, and Kuwait was not willing to entertain that, even as a trade for additional territory on the land -- on the mainland. ZAHN: Well, the Kuwaitis have made it pretty clear that they think this apology is an absolute joke, but what is it that Saddam Hussein is after with the apology?
WILSON: Well, again, I think his objective here is to lay out, not just for the Kuwaitis, but also for the Iraqis and everybody else, that he has now given to the United States, or to the U.N., the full and complete declaration, even if it is not, and as a consequence, the challenge to the United Nations to have submitted (ph) to the U.S. is to take yes for an answer.
And if the United States, its allies, and the United Nations don't take yes for an answer and continue to pursue this disarmament campaign, even to the possibility of an invasion of Iraq, then Saddam wants to have some Arab solidarity so that he can cast this as himself as the victim, and the Arab nation as a larger victim against the latest wave of Western imperialist, colonialist crusaders, whatever you want.
ZAHN: Well, based on what you believe to either be or not be in the 12,000 pages of documents, what kind of Arab solidarity do you think Saddam Hussein is going to get?
WILSON: Well, I don't think any one nation or any one government is going to want to be Saddam's last supporter. If, in fact, we go to this full-scale war.
On the other hand, there may well be, throughout the Arab and Islamic world, a sense of, once again, they've been victimized by the larger Western imperial power.
And what I worry about is that you end up having another generation of disaffected Muslim, who this time is prepared to kill and die in the name of Saddam Hussein, and that just exacerbates or war on terrorism. It doesn't help it at all.
ZAHN: Mr. Ambassador, I think everybody found quite chilling what Senator Bob Graham had to say over the weekend about the prospect of military involvement in Iraq and if, in fact, it comes to that, what he believes will be an almost certainty that there will be Iraqi terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Do you share that concern?
WILSON: Well, Senator Graham obviously has access to information I don't have, but certainly Saddam is capable of trying to mount terrorist attacks. Even during the Gulf War, there were some diplomats thrown out of the Philippines for allegedly trying to plant bombs in front of the American Embassy there. So he's certainly capable of doing it. I might note that Iraqi intelligence services, when they have engaged in these types of terrorist activities, have been extraordinarily clumsy in the past.
I remember catching an Iraqi intelligence agent in my house in Baghdad when I was there. So, they are not very subtle or sophisticated, and I suspect that if they were to, in fact, do something like that, their fingerprints would be all over it. So it's -- it would have to be an extremist, it seems to me. ZAHN: Ambassador Joseph Wilson, always appreciate your insights. Thank you, again, for dropping by this morning.
WILSON: My pleasure. It seems to me you certainly have President George H. W. Bush wrapped around your little finger, Paula.
ZAHN: Oh, you think so? Actually, he really did call me in the hospital and encouraged me not to make the trek to Washington, but -- I had made the commitment nine months ago, and I showed up. Pretty good crowd, though, right, with the vice president, Norman Schwarzkopf, head of the CIA. It was...
WILSON: I didn't get my invitation card.
ZAHN: Hey, next year, OK? Thanks, ambassador.
WILSON: All right. Thanks a lot, Paula.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
