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American Morning
More of Gore
Aired December 11, 2002 - 09:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now to the second part of my conversation with Al Gore. Surely, the former vice president has regrets about losing the presidency. But to hear him tell it, he's not dealing on the could have, should have, would have, focusing instead on the future and possibly another attempt to win the White House in 2004.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: So if you were being really honest about this process you've gone through, how many times have you wakened in the middle of the night and...
(LAUGHTER)
... and just want to pound your fist against the wall...
AL GORE, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, that hasn't happened.
ZAHN: ... about the election or about the Supreme Court decision?
GORE: That hasn't happened. I won't pretend that it was easy. You know, in the first bit of time after that it was hard. But, you know, the country's long since moved on, I've moved on. And the truth is, there are a lot worse things than losing an election and lots of families in this country have been through much worse things than that.
You know, the one thing that I sometimes have trouble with is seeing some of the decisions when they're made that I strongly disagree with that I think are going to hurt the country. You know, I think a lot of people who disagree, you know -- we have that privilege as citizens to disagree strongly. But as far as my personal role in it, I've long since moved on.
ZAHN: Although you have conceded in the last year that you could have been a better campaigner, what did you do wrong?
GORE: Oh, I've learned a lot of lessons. I think you learn more from adversity than you do from smooth sailing.
I think that if I had it to do over again I would spend a lot more time just talking to people in small groups and one-on-one and really listening deeply and taking the time to really understand in- depth what people are going through. My wife, Tipper, and I have been able to do that during the last two years as we've prepared these two books that we've published. And I've enjoyed that process. And I think it's applicable to politics.
The second thing I would do -- spend much more time on is just taking whatever time is needed to find the right words to just speak straight from the heart on the major challenges facing the country.
ZAHN: You think you were too calculated?
GORE: I wouldn't...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: ... too many alliances, that you were manipulated in some way?
GORE: No, I wouldn't use any of those words. But I think that in order to be successful in American politics you've got to do at least two things well: You've got to lay out a vision and make proposals for how to solve the problems that are compelling, and then you've got to reconcile positions with the political realities necessary to put together a majority and all that.
I don't think I'm as good at that second part.
(LAUGHTER)
So if I do it again, I'll be concentrating mainly on talking to people one-on-one and in small groups and in putting out the best, most heartfelt proposals that I can find for how to make it a better country and solve the problems that we're facing.
ZAHN: How did you react to the criticism during the campaign that you had lost your moorings, that you had allowed yourself to be manipulated into this alpha male, that you were more concerned about wearing earth tones than really communicating with...
GORE: Well...
ZAHN: Was it a mistake?
GORE: Well, I'll own up to a lot of mistakes in the campaign. I think that was a lot of mythology, myself. You know, you do events in a formal setting, you wear a suit and tie. You do events out on a farm in Iowa or something, you're going to wear informal clothes. I thought that that was, kind of, a mythological attack, unfair deal, myself. But, you know, that happens.
ZAHN: And yet when you look at your performances in the debate, I am told that a staff member finally made you sit down and watch some of the "Saturday Night Live" satires to understand what people were saying out there on the campaign trail. Did that hurt when you saw those parodies for the first time?
GORE: Oh, I've always -- heck, I'm going to be on "Saturday Night Live" this weekend. I've always laughed at the satires. Darrell Hammond has an uncanny imitation of me. And I think it's very funny. And having the chance to work with him this week has been a lot of fun.
ZAHN: Through the parodies, though, did you see perhaps things you could have changed to make you better communicate to the American public?
GORE: What you're referring to is a specific session during one of the debate preps. And it was immediately after the first debate when they were trying to make the point, "Hey, look, during these cutaways, the reaction shots, you know, the sighing stuff." Yes, it made it easier for me to see what didn't -- what wasn't good about that, sure.
ZAHN: I think it was Tipper, in an interview, that, kind of, referred it to us as "Goldilocks and the Three Bears"; that, you know...
GORE: What, the three debates?
ZAHN: ... too hot...
GORE: Yes, too hot.
ZAHN: ... too cold, and then finally you got it just right.
GORE: Just right.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: Did you feel manipulated by your handlers? I mean...
GORE: No, no. I think they did a...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: ... trying to make you be someone you weren't?
GORE: No. If I had any criticism, it would be of myself for, you know, not just focusing my time on the things that mattered the most.
It's so easy in a campaign to get into the routine of going from one media event to another and, you know, trying to get what they call free TV, setting up these little events that are designed to attract the local news. And it's all fine and good, but, you know, for me, if I do it again, I'll spend my time, not on that stuff, but on trying to communicate directly to the American people about the things that matter.
And as far as advisers and consultants, I think they did a fine job. In fact, I think they did an excellent job. And, you know, if there's any fault, it's mine.
ZAHN: I know you say the accounts of your separation from Bill Clinton during the campaign were much exaggerated. Is it true, though, at one point of the campaign that you two had an absolutely blowout about the direction your campaign was taking?
GORE: No, not at all.
ZAHN: Never happened?
GORE: Never happened.
I'll tell you what did happen that's been reported, is after the campaign was over with, and then after the Supreme Court decision, probably -- I don't know how long it was, maybe a week or two after that, when I was finishing up some of my work down at the White House, I set up a session with him and we tried to, kind of, clear the air.
Because one of the rules we had when we started working together in '92 is that we'd always clear things up, because if two people work together in a high-pressure environment you're going to have people working for you, staff and so forth, getting into disagreements. It's just bound to happen. And so we always had regular sessions to clear the air and make sure we were on the same wavelength. We had a weekly luncheon, among other things.
Well, during the campaign we didn't have that, because I was out there full time, so a lot had built up. And I thought it was be good to, kind of, you know, clear the air and get rid of some of the misconceptions on both sides.
And we did have that session, and we both were very candid and blunt. And it served its purpose, it laid the foundation for getting the relationship back in a very positive way. And we're good friends, and we communicate on a semi-regular basis. And so that's all in the past.
ZAHN: So a misunderstanding did come to grow out of the force of the campaign?
GORE: Sure. Not just one, but -- no major ones, but lots of minor things built up. That's true in any relationship.
ZAHN: Is it true that, contrary to what some reports would suggest, that you didn't distance yourself from President Clinton because of some of his sexual indiscretions?
GORE: No. Yes, that's true that I didn't. I talked about the future, and maybe some people interpreted it that way. But, you know, Bill Clinton himself has said many times all campaigns are about the future and not the past. That's true. And in virtually every speech I made, I tried to make a point of reminding people of the great economic performance in the Clinton-Gore administration. And, you know, I bragged on that regularly.
But while I did that, I also came to understand that people wanted -- they appreciated that and all that, OK.came to understand that people wanted to -- they appreciated that and all of that, OK, but what's next? And so I spent most of my time talking about my proposals for the future and a little bit less time talking about the past.
ZAHN: I know you are saying you're going to make a decision whether to run sometime over the holiday period.
GORE: Right.
ZAHN: Reportedly Tipper and your daughter Karenna are very much in favor of your running. Where is your head right now?
GORE: Well, my whole family is very supportive of whichever decision I make. And if I decide to run again, they've told me that they are enthusiastically supportive. And I'm grateful for that.
They've also told me that if I decide to do something else in life, that they're supportive of that as well. So I couldn't possibly ask for anything more.
I have -- for my part, I've put off that, all the consideration of all of those factors, until we get this book tour over with and I can lay out all the factors on the table and get with my family and get off by myself and analyze it out and make a decision. And I promised my family two years ago that I would take the full two years and then make the decision.
And you know, if anybody's impatient, it's just another three weeks until the end of the year. So it's not going to be long.
ZAHN: We'll be waiting along with you.
How seriously do you consider the judgment, the members of your own party? Byron Dorgan, for example, says you shouldn't run. Barney Frank says you shouldn't run because you can't win.
GORE: Well, I don't think anybody can predict the future. And anyone who looks at public opinion polls as a basis for what might or might not happen two years from now is really making a mistake. In the recent elections, the public opinion polls taken two days before the election were widely wrong.
And let me say this, and I feel it very strongly. Whoever the Democratic nominee is in 2004 I think is going to have an excellent chance to win, because I think the economic policies that we're following under President Bush are badly mistaken.
ZAHN: What about this new treasury secretary? Is he going to change anything?
GORE: Remains to be seen. I'm glad that the president got rid of his economic team, but he now needs to get rid of his economic policy.
And it won't be up to the new treasury secretary. It'll be up to President Bush. He's the one that sets the policies. And there is some indication that the out-going secretary of the Treasury might have been fired in part because he no longer agreed with the policies of more tax cuts for the wealthy.
ZAHN: Would you campaign against that?
GORE: Yes.
ZAHN: Would you campaign for a roll-back of the tax cuts...
GORE: Of the ones that are still programed to take place, you bet.
I think additional tax cuts are needed for the middle-income families. I think that this policy of putting it all at the very top of the income brackets is really harmful to our economy.
And it's not really an economic policy, it's just greed and political payback, and it's disguised as an economic policy. That's my view.
It certainly doesn't work. Unemployment's back up to 6 percent, and we've had a return of giant deficits, everything -- all the statistics are heading in the wrong direction.
I think we need a big change in our policies.
ZAHN: What would you do differently if you're confronted with the same set of circumstances? Waging a war against terror...
GORE: Yes.
ZAHN: ... potentially a war against Iraq at the same time that you're trying to protect some of these domestic programs?
GORE: Well...
ZAHN: What would be that the single biggest thing you could point to that would differentiate yourself from George Bush besides...
GORE: Economic policies.
Plus, I think that -- I think it's a mistake to tell the American people, as President Bush has, that the Al Qaida terrorist group of Osama bin Laden is the same thing as Iraq under Saddam Hussein. He said they're virtually the same thing. Well, that's not true. They're not.
And if you ask the intelligence community they say there's, "We don't have any evidence of a connection there."
And the White House hasn't been willing to make any evidence public. I don't think they have any. But -- so why...
ZAHN: They don't have any connection between Al Qaida and Hussein?
GORE: Iraq and Al Qaida, that's right. And so why did they launch a war against Iraq right before the elections when the war on terrorism should have remained our top priority and our principal focus?
ZAHN: But the war has never been launched, there was just the prospect of war.
GORE: Well, OK, a good point, but it certainly dominated the political dialogue between Labor Day and Election Day. And...
ZAHN: Are you accusing the Bush administration of the wag the dog syndrome?
GORE: I can't see inside their hearts, I don't know what their motivations are.
I do know that the White House chief of staff, Andrew Card, was asked about the timing, and he said, "Well, you don't launch a new product line until after Labor Day."
I don't think war is a product line. And I don't think that you reach out for a new product line just because the old one may be getting less public attention or something, particularly if it's something like the war on terrorism.
They have diverted resources from the war against terrorism to the war against Saddam Hussein. Now, Saddam Hussein's a bad guy, and I'm all for him being removed from power. I don't think it's wise for us to unilaterally invade another country for that particular purpose.
And, more importantly, I don't think that it's wise to lose focus on the war against terrorism in order to launch a new war, whether it's after Labor Day or before the election or whatever time. I think we need to keep our eyes on the ball.
ZAHN: Are you saying then that the Bush administration manufactured the issue of...
GORE: No, I'm not...
ZAHN: ... weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to blur the economic picture at the time of the midterm elections?
GORE: I'm not saying anything about their inner motivations. I'm saying that I think they made a mistake in launching this policy at a time when we should have kept the focus on the war against terrorism.
You know, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff recently testified before the Congress that we are now losing ground in Afghanistan. The head of the CIA recently testified that the threat posed by Osama bin Laden is just as great today as it was immediately before 9/11. Osama bin Laden himself is back making public threats against the United States again. The Taliban-associated political elements in Pakistan -- the pro-Taliban forces there have won the recent elections in the provinces bordering Afghanistan. The warlords are back in control in Afghanistan.
This is not a good situation at all, especially because the general that was in charge of Afghanistan is now 100 percent assigned to Iraq. The CIA folks have been telling the newspapers that resources have been diverted from the war against terrorism to Iraq.
I think it's a mistake.
ZAHN: Do you feel it was a failure of the Clinton administration that you didn't do more to get Osama bin Laden?
GORE: I think that ought to be looked at thoroughly in this commission, along with what the current administration did.
I know that we did an awful lot, because we tried to get him on several occasions. And, of course, it wasn't possible to have a military invasion of Afghanistan before we were attacked from there the way it was possible after 9/11.
Also, we'd put together a comprehensive plan which you've probably read about that was due to be triggered. And according to this new book that's been written, even though it was laid out for the new incoming administration, they put it on the back burner and didn't take it up until September 12th.
ZAHN: What more should you have done about Osama bin Laden?
GORE: Well, I think that's something for that commission to look at. Again, along with their principal focus is what happened in the run-up to 9/11 in the current administration.
ZAHN: In closing, I know you told Time magazine -- let me just get this out so I can read this properly.
When you weigh your decision about whether to run for president or not, you recently told Time magazine that you've learned from President Bush, the man with the highest sustained approval rating since history, and you said, "I learned from him. Whoever our nominee in 2004 is, if it's not me, I would advise to take a page from President Bush." How so?
GORE: Specifically that was in response to a question about his campaigning habits. And I was referring specifically to the fact that he took time out of every day to make sure that he got exercise and enough rest and didn't over-schedule, just a couple of events each day. I think that's smart. And I think that Democrats should learn from that. I think that's a smart thing to do.
ZAHN: What kind of president do you think he is?
GORE: You know, I don't feel I know him as a person, so I have no comment on him as a person.
I think the policies that he's followed as president unfortunately have really hurt our country. I think we're worse off economically. We're worse off environmentally. Our health care system is worse off. A lot of problems that need to be addressed are not being addressed. A lot of folks have lost their savings accounts and their 401(k) plans. Our country has, I think, made some mistakes in terms of foreign policy.
So, you know, you look at the results and measure them by those results, I don't think our country is heading in the right direction. I think we're worse off today than we were two years ago. So I wouldn't give him a high grade.
But understand, I'm biased.
ZAHN: But if that were true...
GORE: I didn't vote for the guy.
ZAHN: No, I know that. But if that were true, wouldn't the results in the midterm elections been different?
And I'm just wondering if you feel this next election is all but impossible to separate a candidate, President Bush, from the prism of the 9/11 perspective?
GORE: Oh, I think 9/11 really changed our country. And I think that the decision by the Bush White House, for whatever reason, to launch a war policy against Iraq which, again, has nothing to do with Osama bin Laden, right before the election, I think had a big impact on the election dialogue. And I think the Democrats who tried to talk about the economy had a hard time getting that message heard.
ZAHN: Well, even former President Clinton said the message was all wrong for the Democratic Party. Did you agree with any of his assessment recently?
GORE: Oh, you know, he always says...
(CROSSOVER)
GORE: He always says interesting things. I agreed with some of it. Some of it, I guess, I would put a little bit differently.
But I think that he -- one of the points he made was the one that I just made to you, and that is that the White House focus on the war against Iraq had a huge impact on the election dialogue. I think that's true.
ZAHN: Is that why you think your party got slaughtered...
GORE: I think it's one of the reasons.
ZAHN: ... in the elections?
GORE: I think it's one of the reasons.
And when you use the word slaughter...
ZAHN: Maybe that's too strong a word, but you got trounced. GORE: Yes, given the economic performance being as bad as it was, we should have picked up seats instead of lost a few seats. That's a significant defeat.
So I think that we really do have to take stock and become the loyal opposition not just in name, but in reality. And I see some signs of change and I'm encouraged by it. Mary Landrieu's victory in Louisiana may turn out to have been a turning point.
ZAHN: I know you say that you're about three weeks away from making a decision whether you're going to run or not. If you decide to run, why would you want to be president?
GORE: Oh, to take our country in the right direction. I think that we've got some very serious problems facing us, and I think we can do better.
I think we can do better economically. I think we can create more jobs and have an economic policy that helps families instead of hurts them.
I think we've got to have big changes in our health care system.
I think that we've got to clean up the environment. I strongly disagree with President Bush's decision to give the polluters greater license to dump their pollution into the air that our families breathe and the water that we drink. I think that's awful. And I think it reflects the wrong values. I don't think it's the polluters that need the political clout in the White House, I think it's the people of this country.
ZAHN: And you wouldn't be intimidated by taking on a president who has the highest sustained approval ratings in history?
GORE: Absolutely not. I think that polls of whatever kind, including that one, are very misleading, particularly two years before an election.
ZAHN: Great to see you again.
GORE: You too. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And although the vice president says he thinks those polls are misleading this far in advance of an election, it does show what a tremendous obstacle Democrats face when they take on this president, given the enormously high approval rating.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: What was your sense? I'm sure you had time to talk to him off camera. Was it your sense he was leaning one way or the other? Do you call it 50/50 right now?
ZAHN: He says the meter is running straight up. I know that he conceded his wife and oldest daughter Karenna (ph) are very much in favor of him taking a stab at it again. But he hopes by the end of the Christmas holiday season to arrive at a decision of his own, and I'm sure when it's announced, we'll be all over it.
HEMMER: So you think he holds a pretty good poker face right now.
ZAHN: Yes, yes, hard to say.
HEMMER: All right. Thank you, Paula.
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Aired December 11, 2002 - 09:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now to the second part of my conversation with Al Gore. Surely, the former vice president has regrets about losing the presidency. But to hear him tell it, he's not dealing on the could have, should have, would have, focusing instead on the future and possibly another attempt to win the White House in 2004.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: So if you were being really honest about this process you've gone through, how many times have you wakened in the middle of the night and...
(LAUGHTER)
... and just want to pound your fist against the wall...
AL GORE, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, that hasn't happened.
ZAHN: ... about the election or about the Supreme Court decision?
GORE: That hasn't happened. I won't pretend that it was easy. You know, in the first bit of time after that it was hard. But, you know, the country's long since moved on, I've moved on. And the truth is, there are a lot worse things than losing an election and lots of families in this country have been through much worse things than that.
You know, the one thing that I sometimes have trouble with is seeing some of the decisions when they're made that I strongly disagree with that I think are going to hurt the country. You know, I think a lot of people who disagree, you know -- we have that privilege as citizens to disagree strongly. But as far as my personal role in it, I've long since moved on.
ZAHN: Although you have conceded in the last year that you could have been a better campaigner, what did you do wrong?
GORE: Oh, I've learned a lot of lessons. I think you learn more from adversity than you do from smooth sailing.
I think that if I had it to do over again I would spend a lot more time just talking to people in small groups and one-on-one and really listening deeply and taking the time to really understand in- depth what people are going through. My wife, Tipper, and I have been able to do that during the last two years as we've prepared these two books that we've published. And I've enjoyed that process. And I think it's applicable to politics.
The second thing I would do -- spend much more time on is just taking whatever time is needed to find the right words to just speak straight from the heart on the major challenges facing the country.
ZAHN: You think you were too calculated?
GORE: I wouldn't...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: ... too many alliances, that you were manipulated in some way?
GORE: No, I wouldn't use any of those words. But I think that in order to be successful in American politics you've got to do at least two things well: You've got to lay out a vision and make proposals for how to solve the problems that are compelling, and then you've got to reconcile positions with the political realities necessary to put together a majority and all that.
I don't think I'm as good at that second part.
(LAUGHTER)
So if I do it again, I'll be concentrating mainly on talking to people one-on-one and in small groups and in putting out the best, most heartfelt proposals that I can find for how to make it a better country and solve the problems that we're facing.
ZAHN: How did you react to the criticism during the campaign that you had lost your moorings, that you had allowed yourself to be manipulated into this alpha male, that you were more concerned about wearing earth tones than really communicating with...
GORE: Well...
ZAHN: Was it a mistake?
GORE: Well, I'll own up to a lot of mistakes in the campaign. I think that was a lot of mythology, myself. You know, you do events in a formal setting, you wear a suit and tie. You do events out on a farm in Iowa or something, you're going to wear informal clothes. I thought that that was, kind of, a mythological attack, unfair deal, myself. But, you know, that happens.
ZAHN: And yet when you look at your performances in the debate, I am told that a staff member finally made you sit down and watch some of the "Saturday Night Live" satires to understand what people were saying out there on the campaign trail. Did that hurt when you saw those parodies for the first time?
GORE: Oh, I've always -- heck, I'm going to be on "Saturday Night Live" this weekend. I've always laughed at the satires. Darrell Hammond has an uncanny imitation of me. And I think it's very funny. And having the chance to work with him this week has been a lot of fun.
ZAHN: Through the parodies, though, did you see perhaps things you could have changed to make you better communicate to the American public?
GORE: What you're referring to is a specific session during one of the debate preps. And it was immediately after the first debate when they were trying to make the point, "Hey, look, during these cutaways, the reaction shots, you know, the sighing stuff." Yes, it made it easier for me to see what didn't -- what wasn't good about that, sure.
ZAHN: I think it was Tipper, in an interview, that, kind of, referred it to us as "Goldilocks and the Three Bears"; that, you know...
GORE: What, the three debates?
ZAHN: ... too hot...
GORE: Yes, too hot.
ZAHN: ... too cold, and then finally you got it just right.
GORE: Just right.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: Did you feel manipulated by your handlers? I mean...
GORE: No, no. I think they did a...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: ... trying to make you be someone you weren't?
GORE: No. If I had any criticism, it would be of myself for, you know, not just focusing my time on the things that mattered the most.
It's so easy in a campaign to get into the routine of going from one media event to another and, you know, trying to get what they call free TV, setting up these little events that are designed to attract the local news. And it's all fine and good, but, you know, for me, if I do it again, I'll spend my time, not on that stuff, but on trying to communicate directly to the American people about the things that matter.
And as far as advisers and consultants, I think they did a fine job. In fact, I think they did an excellent job. And, you know, if there's any fault, it's mine.
ZAHN: I know you say the accounts of your separation from Bill Clinton during the campaign were much exaggerated. Is it true, though, at one point of the campaign that you two had an absolutely blowout about the direction your campaign was taking?
GORE: No, not at all.
ZAHN: Never happened?
GORE: Never happened.
I'll tell you what did happen that's been reported, is after the campaign was over with, and then after the Supreme Court decision, probably -- I don't know how long it was, maybe a week or two after that, when I was finishing up some of my work down at the White House, I set up a session with him and we tried to, kind of, clear the air.
Because one of the rules we had when we started working together in '92 is that we'd always clear things up, because if two people work together in a high-pressure environment you're going to have people working for you, staff and so forth, getting into disagreements. It's just bound to happen. And so we always had regular sessions to clear the air and make sure we were on the same wavelength. We had a weekly luncheon, among other things.
Well, during the campaign we didn't have that, because I was out there full time, so a lot had built up. And I thought it was be good to, kind of, you know, clear the air and get rid of some of the misconceptions on both sides.
And we did have that session, and we both were very candid and blunt. And it served its purpose, it laid the foundation for getting the relationship back in a very positive way. And we're good friends, and we communicate on a semi-regular basis. And so that's all in the past.
ZAHN: So a misunderstanding did come to grow out of the force of the campaign?
GORE: Sure. Not just one, but -- no major ones, but lots of minor things built up. That's true in any relationship.
ZAHN: Is it true that, contrary to what some reports would suggest, that you didn't distance yourself from President Clinton because of some of his sexual indiscretions?
GORE: No. Yes, that's true that I didn't. I talked about the future, and maybe some people interpreted it that way. But, you know, Bill Clinton himself has said many times all campaigns are about the future and not the past. That's true. And in virtually every speech I made, I tried to make a point of reminding people of the great economic performance in the Clinton-Gore administration. And, you know, I bragged on that regularly.
But while I did that, I also came to understand that people wanted -- they appreciated that and all that, OK.came to understand that people wanted to -- they appreciated that and all of that, OK, but what's next? And so I spent most of my time talking about my proposals for the future and a little bit less time talking about the past.
ZAHN: I know you are saying you're going to make a decision whether to run sometime over the holiday period.
GORE: Right.
ZAHN: Reportedly Tipper and your daughter Karenna are very much in favor of your running. Where is your head right now?
GORE: Well, my whole family is very supportive of whichever decision I make. And if I decide to run again, they've told me that they are enthusiastically supportive. And I'm grateful for that.
They've also told me that if I decide to do something else in life, that they're supportive of that as well. So I couldn't possibly ask for anything more.
I have -- for my part, I've put off that, all the consideration of all of those factors, until we get this book tour over with and I can lay out all the factors on the table and get with my family and get off by myself and analyze it out and make a decision. And I promised my family two years ago that I would take the full two years and then make the decision.
And you know, if anybody's impatient, it's just another three weeks until the end of the year. So it's not going to be long.
ZAHN: We'll be waiting along with you.
How seriously do you consider the judgment, the members of your own party? Byron Dorgan, for example, says you shouldn't run. Barney Frank says you shouldn't run because you can't win.
GORE: Well, I don't think anybody can predict the future. And anyone who looks at public opinion polls as a basis for what might or might not happen two years from now is really making a mistake. In the recent elections, the public opinion polls taken two days before the election were widely wrong.
And let me say this, and I feel it very strongly. Whoever the Democratic nominee is in 2004 I think is going to have an excellent chance to win, because I think the economic policies that we're following under President Bush are badly mistaken.
ZAHN: What about this new treasury secretary? Is he going to change anything?
GORE: Remains to be seen. I'm glad that the president got rid of his economic team, but he now needs to get rid of his economic policy.
And it won't be up to the new treasury secretary. It'll be up to President Bush. He's the one that sets the policies. And there is some indication that the out-going secretary of the Treasury might have been fired in part because he no longer agreed with the policies of more tax cuts for the wealthy.
ZAHN: Would you campaign against that?
GORE: Yes.
ZAHN: Would you campaign for a roll-back of the tax cuts...
GORE: Of the ones that are still programed to take place, you bet.
I think additional tax cuts are needed for the middle-income families. I think that this policy of putting it all at the very top of the income brackets is really harmful to our economy.
And it's not really an economic policy, it's just greed and political payback, and it's disguised as an economic policy. That's my view.
It certainly doesn't work. Unemployment's back up to 6 percent, and we've had a return of giant deficits, everything -- all the statistics are heading in the wrong direction.
I think we need a big change in our policies.
ZAHN: What would you do differently if you're confronted with the same set of circumstances? Waging a war against terror...
GORE: Yes.
ZAHN: ... potentially a war against Iraq at the same time that you're trying to protect some of these domestic programs?
GORE: Well...
ZAHN: What would be that the single biggest thing you could point to that would differentiate yourself from George Bush besides...
GORE: Economic policies.
Plus, I think that -- I think it's a mistake to tell the American people, as President Bush has, that the Al Qaida terrorist group of Osama bin Laden is the same thing as Iraq under Saddam Hussein. He said they're virtually the same thing. Well, that's not true. They're not.
And if you ask the intelligence community they say there's, "We don't have any evidence of a connection there."
And the White House hasn't been willing to make any evidence public. I don't think they have any. But -- so why...
ZAHN: They don't have any connection between Al Qaida and Hussein?
GORE: Iraq and Al Qaida, that's right. And so why did they launch a war against Iraq right before the elections when the war on terrorism should have remained our top priority and our principal focus?
ZAHN: But the war has never been launched, there was just the prospect of war.
GORE: Well, OK, a good point, but it certainly dominated the political dialogue between Labor Day and Election Day. And...
ZAHN: Are you accusing the Bush administration of the wag the dog syndrome?
GORE: I can't see inside their hearts, I don't know what their motivations are.
I do know that the White House chief of staff, Andrew Card, was asked about the timing, and he said, "Well, you don't launch a new product line until after Labor Day."
I don't think war is a product line. And I don't think that you reach out for a new product line just because the old one may be getting less public attention or something, particularly if it's something like the war on terrorism.
They have diverted resources from the war against terrorism to the war against Saddam Hussein. Now, Saddam Hussein's a bad guy, and I'm all for him being removed from power. I don't think it's wise for us to unilaterally invade another country for that particular purpose.
And, more importantly, I don't think that it's wise to lose focus on the war against terrorism in order to launch a new war, whether it's after Labor Day or before the election or whatever time. I think we need to keep our eyes on the ball.
ZAHN: Are you saying then that the Bush administration manufactured the issue of...
GORE: No, I'm not...
ZAHN: ... weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to blur the economic picture at the time of the midterm elections?
GORE: I'm not saying anything about their inner motivations. I'm saying that I think they made a mistake in launching this policy at a time when we should have kept the focus on the war against terrorism.
You know, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff recently testified before the Congress that we are now losing ground in Afghanistan. The head of the CIA recently testified that the threat posed by Osama bin Laden is just as great today as it was immediately before 9/11. Osama bin Laden himself is back making public threats against the United States again. The Taliban-associated political elements in Pakistan -- the pro-Taliban forces there have won the recent elections in the provinces bordering Afghanistan. The warlords are back in control in Afghanistan.
This is not a good situation at all, especially because the general that was in charge of Afghanistan is now 100 percent assigned to Iraq. The CIA folks have been telling the newspapers that resources have been diverted from the war against terrorism to Iraq.
I think it's a mistake.
ZAHN: Do you feel it was a failure of the Clinton administration that you didn't do more to get Osama bin Laden?
GORE: I think that ought to be looked at thoroughly in this commission, along with what the current administration did.
I know that we did an awful lot, because we tried to get him on several occasions. And, of course, it wasn't possible to have a military invasion of Afghanistan before we were attacked from there the way it was possible after 9/11.
Also, we'd put together a comprehensive plan which you've probably read about that was due to be triggered. And according to this new book that's been written, even though it was laid out for the new incoming administration, they put it on the back burner and didn't take it up until September 12th.
ZAHN: What more should you have done about Osama bin Laden?
GORE: Well, I think that's something for that commission to look at. Again, along with their principal focus is what happened in the run-up to 9/11 in the current administration.
ZAHN: In closing, I know you told Time magazine -- let me just get this out so I can read this properly.
When you weigh your decision about whether to run for president or not, you recently told Time magazine that you've learned from President Bush, the man with the highest sustained approval rating since history, and you said, "I learned from him. Whoever our nominee in 2004 is, if it's not me, I would advise to take a page from President Bush." How so?
GORE: Specifically that was in response to a question about his campaigning habits. And I was referring specifically to the fact that he took time out of every day to make sure that he got exercise and enough rest and didn't over-schedule, just a couple of events each day. I think that's smart. And I think that Democrats should learn from that. I think that's a smart thing to do.
ZAHN: What kind of president do you think he is?
GORE: You know, I don't feel I know him as a person, so I have no comment on him as a person.
I think the policies that he's followed as president unfortunately have really hurt our country. I think we're worse off economically. We're worse off environmentally. Our health care system is worse off. A lot of problems that need to be addressed are not being addressed. A lot of folks have lost their savings accounts and their 401(k) plans. Our country has, I think, made some mistakes in terms of foreign policy.
So, you know, you look at the results and measure them by those results, I don't think our country is heading in the right direction. I think we're worse off today than we were two years ago. So I wouldn't give him a high grade.
But understand, I'm biased.
ZAHN: But if that were true...
GORE: I didn't vote for the guy.
ZAHN: No, I know that. But if that were true, wouldn't the results in the midterm elections been different?
And I'm just wondering if you feel this next election is all but impossible to separate a candidate, President Bush, from the prism of the 9/11 perspective?
GORE: Oh, I think 9/11 really changed our country. And I think that the decision by the Bush White House, for whatever reason, to launch a war policy against Iraq which, again, has nothing to do with Osama bin Laden, right before the election, I think had a big impact on the election dialogue. And I think the Democrats who tried to talk about the economy had a hard time getting that message heard.
ZAHN: Well, even former President Clinton said the message was all wrong for the Democratic Party. Did you agree with any of his assessment recently?
GORE: Oh, you know, he always says...
(CROSSOVER)
GORE: He always says interesting things. I agreed with some of it. Some of it, I guess, I would put a little bit differently.
But I think that he -- one of the points he made was the one that I just made to you, and that is that the White House focus on the war against Iraq had a huge impact on the election dialogue. I think that's true.
ZAHN: Is that why you think your party got slaughtered...
GORE: I think it's one of the reasons.
ZAHN: ... in the elections?
GORE: I think it's one of the reasons.
And when you use the word slaughter...
ZAHN: Maybe that's too strong a word, but you got trounced. GORE: Yes, given the economic performance being as bad as it was, we should have picked up seats instead of lost a few seats. That's a significant defeat.
So I think that we really do have to take stock and become the loyal opposition not just in name, but in reality. And I see some signs of change and I'm encouraged by it. Mary Landrieu's victory in Louisiana may turn out to have been a turning point.
ZAHN: I know you say that you're about three weeks away from making a decision whether you're going to run or not. If you decide to run, why would you want to be president?
GORE: Oh, to take our country in the right direction. I think that we've got some very serious problems facing us, and I think we can do better.
I think we can do better economically. I think we can create more jobs and have an economic policy that helps families instead of hurts them.
I think we've got to have big changes in our health care system.
I think that we've got to clean up the environment. I strongly disagree with President Bush's decision to give the polluters greater license to dump their pollution into the air that our families breathe and the water that we drink. I think that's awful. And I think it reflects the wrong values. I don't think it's the polluters that need the political clout in the White House, I think it's the people of this country.
ZAHN: And you wouldn't be intimidated by taking on a president who has the highest sustained approval ratings in history?
GORE: Absolutely not. I think that polls of whatever kind, including that one, are very misleading, particularly two years before an election.
ZAHN: Great to see you again.
GORE: You too. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And although the vice president says he thinks those polls are misleading this far in advance of an election, it does show what a tremendous obstacle Democrats face when they take on this president, given the enormously high approval rating.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: What was your sense? I'm sure you had time to talk to him off camera. Was it your sense he was leaning one way or the other? Do you call it 50/50 right now?
ZAHN: He says the meter is running straight up. I know that he conceded his wife and oldest daughter Karenna (ph) are very much in favor of him taking a stab at it again. But he hopes by the end of the Christmas holiday season to arrive at a decision of his own, and I'm sure when it's announced, we'll be all over it.
HEMMER: So you think he holds a pretty good poker face right now.
ZAHN: Yes, yes, hard to say.
HEMMER: All right. Thank you, Paula.
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