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American Morning

Interview with Gregory Meeks, J.C. Watts

Aired December 17, 2002 - 07:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now we turn our focus back to Trent Lott, whose job as Republican leader in the Senate may be in some serious jeopardy. Lott's Senate Republican peers will decide his fate in a rank-and-file vote on January 6.
And during an interview Monday on cable's Black Entertainment Television, Lott apologized, once again, for his racially-charged remarks and offered to pursue legislation to make amends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MI), MAJORITY LEADER: But the important thing is to recognize the hurt that I've caused, and ask for forgiveness, and find a way to turn this into a positive thing and try to make amends for what I've said and for what others have said and done over the years. I'm looking for this to be not only an opportunity for redemption, but to do something about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So, can he do something about it? Joining us now to talk about Lott's uncertain political future, Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks of New York, and from Norman, Oklahoma this morning, Republican J.C. Watts, author of "What Color is a Conservative?"

Good morning, gentlemen -- nice to have both of you with us.

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK: Good morning, Paula.

REP. J.C. WATTS (R), OKLAHOMA: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Representative Meeks, I'm going to start with you this morning, and put up on the screen something you said at the start of this controversy about Senator Lott. You said, "He's consistent, consistent with racism and consistent with insincerity when caught expressing racist views."

Senator Lott apologized again last night on BET. Did he change your mind?

MEEKS: Well, no, he didn't change my mind. I think that his remarks -- or his remarks in what he said that he's for affirmative action that was almost laughable when you look at his voting record. But I think that what's more important here are the members of the Congressional Black Caucus believe that his statements should be censured on the floor of the Senate and the House of Representatives, and that's important. And then, you know, overall, you know, think about what took place in this last campaign. You know, most importantly, the undercurrent in the deep south -- Georgia and South Carolina and North Carolina -- the statements that he made is what resonated in those campaigns, and that's the kind of thing that has to stop in America.

ZAHN: You just said you would call for his censure. Would you also call for the censure of Senator Robert Byrd, who, some say, made equally inflammatory remarks?

MEEKS: Well, I would not object to that. Anybody that has made inflammatory remarks (UNINTELLIGIBLE) censure, and if you want to add an amendment to that motion, then so be it. At that time, the members of the Congressional Black Caucus stepped out and spoke out against what Byrd said at that particular time.

And then, I think then we can -- but the focus is we've got to change the undercurrent of what's taking place, particularly in the deep south, particularly in politics. When you're talking about -- I saw campaign literature talking about -- it had pictures of a black family saying that if they win, we lose.

And that's the kind of thing -- and there's no talk by the president or anyone else when we talk about the confederacy, the confederate flag and what it represents and why it needs to come down. That's the kind of thing that has to stop, because of that legacy of Jim Crow-ism (ph) and segregation and slavery that we still see the residuals of and live by and suffer by today.

ZAHN: All right, Representative Watts, I want to come back to the point Representative Meeks made a moment ago, and that was when he said what Trent Lott had to say last night about affirmative action was almost laughable.

Let's play for the audience a small portion of that, so they can see what the senator had to say, and then I want you to react -- let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED GORDON, BLACK ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION: What about affirmative action?

LOTT: I'm for that. I think you should reach out to people...

GORDON: Across the board?

LOTT: Absolutely across the board.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Given his record, Representative Meeks has just essentially said that's pretty much a joke. What do you think?

WATTS: Well, Paula, I do think you have to have some system in place to bring people into the system to create opportunity for people. Affirmative action, that's what it's about. It's about opportunity. I have said...

ZAHN: But does Senator Lott's record support that?

WATTS: I have said that opportunity needs to be created. It should not be done based on skin color or gender. It should be done based on need. Red, yellow, brown, black and white people need help getting into the system.

Senator Lott, I can speak for Senator Lott. It's my experience with him over the last eight years, more specifically the last four years when he has fought for the faith-based initiative, which is critical, I think, for the underserved community. He's assisted me in the struggle for historical black colleges and universities, trade with Africa. All of those things affect the African-American community. I think what's...

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, though. When it comes to...

WATTS: Paula, Paula...

ZAHN: But, Representative Watts, you really need to focus on this issue of affirmative action...

WATTS: Well, I think -- well, but no, I think...

ZAHN: ... because the senator said...

WATTS: No, Paula, I think we -- I think -- well, let me make this point. I think we missed the point -- and I was delighted to hear my friend from New York say that -- Republicans and Democrats both should be ashamed of themselves when they say things like this. But after it's said, we go on about our business. When Robert Byrd said it, when Trent Lott said it, after the dust has settled, we need to move forward with substantive issues that really make a difference in people's lives.

ZAHN: All right, but, Representative Watts, I really need you to focus on this one issue of affirmative action, because even the senator conceded in his interview last night that his actions didn't necessarily reflect his record. What is that supposed to mean to constituents out there?

WATTS: Well, I think...

ZAHN: He went on to say he had hired blacks in his various administrations since the '70s.

WATTS: Well, I think, Paula, what we've seen here is we've seen an elected official get punched in the nose. He's going through a three-phase process. He gets punched in the nose, he gets up, he wipes himself off, cleans himself up, tries to go forward, and now he's going through rehabilitation. And in this rehabilitation process, I think these are issues -- affirmative action, minority health care disparities, trade with Africa, historical black colleges -- all of those things are things that I think the constituency that he felt like he hurt the most, I think those are the things that they're wanting to hear.

ZAHN: All right...

WATTS: And they want action; they don't want just talk on it.

ZAHN: We've got to give Representative Meeks the last word here. Sir, it's your turn.

MEEKS: Well, again, I think that what has to happen -- and J.C. has talked about action -- we need action not only from Trent Lott, but we need action to talk about and be very aggressive about what the confederate flag stands for and why we have to get rid of that flag. We've got to have action with reference to the kinds of campaigns that took place, the undercurrents of what Trent Lott has said is the undercurrent to what's taking place in the south by the Republican Party, talking about Jefferson Davis and the sentiments that was expressed by Senator Lott.

That's what we've got to stop in America. That's why the Congressional Black Caucus believes that censure is the way to go, but beginning on the first -- excuse me -- the first act of Congress of the 108th Congress when we get back on January the 6th.

ZAHN: Well, for starters, I guess on January 6, the Senate -- the Republicans are going to decide who they want to lead them in the fight. In the meantime, gentlemen, we'd like to stay in touch with you and appreciate both of your coming in...

WATTS: Thank you.

ZAHN: ... to debate on this very important issue. Thanks for your time this morning.

MEEKS: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired December 17, 2002 - 07:13   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now we turn our focus back to Trent Lott, whose job as Republican leader in the Senate may be in some serious jeopardy. Lott's Senate Republican peers will decide his fate in a rank-and-file vote on January 6.
And during an interview Monday on cable's Black Entertainment Television, Lott apologized, once again, for his racially-charged remarks and offered to pursue legislation to make amends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MI), MAJORITY LEADER: But the important thing is to recognize the hurt that I've caused, and ask for forgiveness, and find a way to turn this into a positive thing and try to make amends for what I've said and for what others have said and done over the years. I'm looking for this to be not only an opportunity for redemption, but to do something about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So, can he do something about it? Joining us now to talk about Lott's uncertain political future, Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks of New York, and from Norman, Oklahoma this morning, Republican J.C. Watts, author of "What Color is a Conservative?"

Good morning, gentlemen -- nice to have both of you with us.

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK: Good morning, Paula.

REP. J.C. WATTS (R), OKLAHOMA: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Representative Meeks, I'm going to start with you this morning, and put up on the screen something you said at the start of this controversy about Senator Lott. You said, "He's consistent, consistent with racism and consistent with insincerity when caught expressing racist views."

Senator Lott apologized again last night on BET. Did he change your mind?

MEEKS: Well, no, he didn't change my mind. I think that his remarks -- or his remarks in what he said that he's for affirmative action that was almost laughable when you look at his voting record. But I think that what's more important here are the members of the Congressional Black Caucus believe that his statements should be censured on the floor of the Senate and the House of Representatives, and that's important. And then, you know, overall, you know, think about what took place in this last campaign. You know, most importantly, the undercurrent in the deep south -- Georgia and South Carolina and North Carolina -- the statements that he made is what resonated in those campaigns, and that's the kind of thing that has to stop in America.

ZAHN: You just said you would call for his censure. Would you also call for the censure of Senator Robert Byrd, who, some say, made equally inflammatory remarks?

MEEKS: Well, I would not object to that. Anybody that has made inflammatory remarks (UNINTELLIGIBLE) censure, and if you want to add an amendment to that motion, then so be it. At that time, the members of the Congressional Black Caucus stepped out and spoke out against what Byrd said at that particular time.

And then, I think then we can -- but the focus is we've got to change the undercurrent of what's taking place, particularly in the deep south, particularly in politics. When you're talking about -- I saw campaign literature talking about -- it had pictures of a black family saying that if they win, we lose.

And that's the kind of thing -- and there's no talk by the president or anyone else when we talk about the confederacy, the confederate flag and what it represents and why it needs to come down. That's the kind of thing that has to stop, because of that legacy of Jim Crow-ism (ph) and segregation and slavery that we still see the residuals of and live by and suffer by today.

ZAHN: All right, Representative Watts, I want to come back to the point Representative Meeks made a moment ago, and that was when he said what Trent Lott had to say last night about affirmative action was almost laughable.

Let's play for the audience a small portion of that, so they can see what the senator had to say, and then I want you to react -- let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED GORDON, BLACK ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION: What about affirmative action?

LOTT: I'm for that. I think you should reach out to people...

GORDON: Across the board?

LOTT: Absolutely across the board.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Given his record, Representative Meeks has just essentially said that's pretty much a joke. What do you think?

WATTS: Well, Paula, I do think you have to have some system in place to bring people into the system to create opportunity for people. Affirmative action, that's what it's about. It's about opportunity. I have said...

ZAHN: But does Senator Lott's record support that?

WATTS: I have said that opportunity needs to be created. It should not be done based on skin color or gender. It should be done based on need. Red, yellow, brown, black and white people need help getting into the system.

Senator Lott, I can speak for Senator Lott. It's my experience with him over the last eight years, more specifically the last four years when he has fought for the faith-based initiative, which is critical, I think, for the underserved community. He's assisted me in the struggle for historical black colleges and universities, trade with Africa. All of those things affect the African-American community. I think what's...

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, though. When it comes to...

WATTS: Paula, Paula...

ZAHN: But, Representative Watts, you really need to focus on this issue of affirmative action...

WATTS: Well, I think -- well, but no, I think...

ZAHN: ... because the senator said...

WATTS: No, Paula, I think we -- I think -- well, let me make this point. I think we missed the point -- and I was delighted to hear my friend from New York say that -- Republicans and Democrats both should be ashamed of themselves when they say things like this. But after it's said, we go on about our business. When Robert Byrd said it, when Trent Lott said it, after the dust has settled, we need to move forward with substantive issues that really make a difference in people's lives.

ZAHN: All right, but, Representative Watts, I really need you to focus on this one issue of affirmative action, because even the senator conceded in his interview last night that his actions didn't necessarily reflect his record. What is that supposed to mean to constituents out there?

WATTS: Well, I think...

ZAHN: He went on to say he had hired blacks in his various administrations since the '70s.

WATTS: Well, I think, Paula, what we've seen here is we've seen an elected official get punched in the nose. He's going through a three-phase process. He gets punched in the nose, he gets up, he wipes himself off, cleans himself up, tries to go forward, and now he's going through rehabilitation. And in this rehabilitation process, I think these are issues -- affirmative action, minority health care disparities, trade with Africa, historical black colleges -- all of those things are things that I think the constituency that he felt like he hurt the most, I think those are the things that they're wanting to hear.

ZAHN: All right...

WATTS: And they want action; they don't want just talk on it.

ZAHN: We've got to give Representative Meeks the last word here. Sir, it's your turn.

MEEKS: Well, again, I think that what has to happen -- and J.C. has talked about action -- we need action not only from Trent Lott, but we need action to talk about and be very aggressive about what the confederate flag stands for and why we have to get rid of that flag. We've got to have action with reference to the kinds of campaigns that took place, the undercurrents of what Trent Lott has said is the undercurrent to what's taking place in the south by the Republican Party, talking about Jefferson Davis and the sentiments that was expressed by Senator Lott.

That's what we've got to stop in America. That's why the Congressional Black Caucus believes that censure is the way to go, but beginning on the first -- excuse me -- the first act of Congress of the 108th Congress when we get back on January the 6th.

ZAHN: Well, for starters, I guess on January 6, the Senate -- the Republicans are going to decide who they want to lead them in the fight. In the meantime, gentlemen, we'd like to stay in touch with you and appreciate both of your coming in...

WATTS: Thank you.

ZAHN: ... to debate on this very important issue. Thanks for your time this morning.

MEEKS: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.