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American Morning

Interview with Bill Richardson

Aired December 30, 2002 - 09:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to turn our attention now to the situation in North Korea. Could diplomacy diffuse the crisis? Let's ask a former diplomat, a man who has actually done work with the North Koreans.
Joining us from Santa Fe, New Mexico is Bill Richardson, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and now New Mexico's governor-elect. I have such a hard time keeping up with your job, sir. Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.

BILL RICHARDSON, GOVERNOR-ELECT, NEW MEXICO: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: I wanted to start off by sharing with you and our audience a little bit of what Secretary of State Colin Powell had to say about the threat that North Korea represents right now. Here is how he characterized it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The president is keeping all of his options on the table, but we are leading with the diplomatic option because it's important for everybody to realize this is a problem, not just in the United States, but for the region and for the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And the Secretary of State made it abundantly clear you have issues of how China should get involved with this potentially, South Korea, and Japan.

Is the Bush administration going at this the right way with the policy of isolation and containment?

RICHARDSON: I think they are partially on the right track but they are also, I believe, on a wrong track.

First Paula, I am glad that the secretary talked about diplomacy. That's critically important that we pursue diplomatic angles. What I disagree with is this policy of isolation. I believe that the best way to deal with North Korea is to engage them. I went to North Korea four times. We engaged them. We got American pilots out. We got some agreements with them.

The worst thing you can do is give them attention by isolating them. My second concern is, who are we going to isolate them with? What we are talking about is in Asian countries, we don't have a NATO situation where there can be a combined effort. South Korea -- we -- our relations with South Korea are not as strong as they used to be. The new president campaigned on an anti-American platform. I am not sure how much leverage China has. So, to isolate North Korea in the region, I'm not sure is going to produce the results that we need.

And then, what are you going to do to a country that is the poorest in the world? It has no industry. You are going to put economic sanctions on them? They have nothing. All they probably are getting from the West that they need is rice and food at this stage. So I think we need to engage them. We need to talk to them directly. We need to send an envoy there. We need to involve the United Nations. So I think Secretary Powell is partially on the right track, but this containment, isolation policy I don't think is the way to go.

ZAHN: Well, it is interesting that you mentioned the issue of engagement, because in the "Wall Street Journal" this morning, there is a pretty tough editorial about the Clinton administration and its practices in North Korea basically saying that the reason North Korea is practicing nuclear blackmail now is because the Clinton administration met Jong Il -- Kim Jong Il's previous threats with appeasement, and they point to the agreed framework as one example of that.

RICHARDSON: Well, I totally disagree with that because the agreed framework in 1994 got the North Koreans to freeze their building of nuclear weapons, of nuclear reactors. In exchange, South Korea and Japan paid for some light water reactors.

Our policy of engaging them was moving in the right direction. Changes came, and I think that the Bush administration has pursued a correct diplomat policy, but then calling them "axis of eagle (sic)," provoking them, that's not the way you deal with them. North Korea doesn't negotiate like other countries. They are so isolated. They're not into the quid pro quo business. They are very unusual, dark minds, that if you provoke them, it gets a bad reaction, and I think we need to engage them directly, instead of...

ZAHN: Well, let me ask you this, sir, you say that North Korea's isn't into the quid pro quo business, and yet this editorial in the "Wall Street Journal" goes on to point out that North Korea has broken every single agreement it has made with the United States going back to 1953.

RICHARDSON: Well, first of all, that is false. They observed the reactor agreement since 1994 for at least five years. They did freeze the reactors. They didn't start acquiring plutonium. Yes, they went out, started shopping around with Pakistan and others, but basically for about five years -- they were behaving. They were engaging with South Korea.

Now, they are a very unusual regime. It's not easy to deal with them, but I think what we need to do is look at the options. Who are you going to isolate them with? The only way to deal with them is engaging them, and they are only going to deal with us, but I believe that the United Nations can now play a role, either having some kind of mediation on their part, Security Council getting involved. I think that allows North Koreans a way out. It can't be in a way that the North Koreans feel they're being blundered and hit upon the head, and I think the United Nations, I think, can play a very constructive role if we pursue it right, but I would be very concerned about a long-term isolation policy that I don't think we have much leverage with.

ZAHN: Well, we thank you for getting up at this ungodly hour to join us for AMERICAN MORNING. We always appreciate your perspective, and we'll be watching you at swearing time. When does that happen, sir?

RICHARDSON: That is going to be at midnight on the 31st.

ZAHN: Well, good luck to you. And again, thanks for joining us here on the holiday.

RICHARDSON: Thank you, Paula. Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 30, 2002 - 09:06   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to turn our attention now to the situation in North Korea. Could diplomacy diffuse the crisis? Let's ask a former diplomat, a man who has actually done work with the North Koreans.
Joining us from Santa Fe, New Mexico is Bill Richardson, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and now New Mexico's governor-elect. I have such a hard time keeping up with your job, sir. Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.

BILL RICHARDSON, GOVERNOR-ELECT, NEW MEXICO: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: I wanted to start off by sharing with you and our audience a little bit of what Secretary of State Colin Powell had to say about the threat that North Korea represents right now. Here is how he characterized it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The president is keeping all of his options on the table, but we are leading with the diplomatic option because it's important for everybody to realize this is a problem, not just in the United States, but for the region and for the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And the Secretary of State made it abundantly clear you have issues of how China should get involved with this potentially, South Korea, and Japan.

Is the Bush administration going at this the right way with the policy of isolation and containment?

RICHARDSON: I think they are partially on the right track but they are also, I believe, on a wrong track.

First Paula, I am glad that the secretary talked about diplomacy. That's critically important that we pursue diplomatic angles. What I disagree with is this policy of isolation. I believe that the best way to deal with North Korea is to engage them. I went to North Korea four times. We engaged them. We got American pilots out. We got some agreements with them.

The worst thing you can do is give them attention by isolating them. My second concern is, who are we going to isolate them with? What we are talking about is in Asian countries, we don't have a NATO situation where there can be a combined effort. South Korea -- we -- our relations with South Korea are not as strong as they used to be. The new president campaigned on an anti-American platform. I am not sure how much leverage China has. So, to isolate North Korea in the region, I'm not sure is going to produce the results that we need.

And then, what are you going to do to a country that is the poorest in the world? It has no industry. You are going to put economic sanctions on them? They have nothing. All they probably are getting from the West that they need is rice and food at this stage. So I think we need to engage them. We need to talk to them directly. We need to send an envoy there. We need to involve the United Nations. So I think Secretary Powell is partially on the right track, but this containment, isolation policy I don't think is the way to go.

ZAHN: Well, it is interesting that you mentioned the issue of engagement, because in the "Wall Street Journal" this morning, there is a pretty tough editorial about the Clinton administration and its practices in North Korea basically saying that the reason North Korea is practicing nuclear blackmail now is because the Clinton administration met Jong Il -- Kim Jong Il's previous threats with appeasement, and they point to the agreed framework as one example of that.

RICHARDSON: Well, I totally disagree with that because the agreed framework in 1994 got the North Koreans to freeze their building of nuclear weapons, of nuclear reactors. In exchange, South Korea and Japan paid for some light water reactors.

Our policy of engaging them was moving in the right direction. Changes came, and I think that the Bush administration has pursued a correct diplomat policy, but then calling them "axis of eagle (sic)," provoking them, that's not the way you deal with them. North Korea doesn't negotiate like other countries. They are so isolated. They're not into the quid pro quo business. They are very unusual, dark minds, that if you provoke them, it gets a bad reaction, and I think we need to engage them directly, instead of...

ZAHN: Well, let me ask you this, sir, you say that North Korea's isn't into the quid pro quo business, and yet this editorial in the "Wall Street Journal" goes on to point out that North Korea has broken every single agreement it has made with the United States going back to 1953.

RICHARDSON: Well, first of all, that is false. They observed the reactor agreement since 1994 for at least five years. They did freeze the reactors. They didn't start acquiring plutonium. Yes, they went out, started shopping around with Pakistan and others, but basically for about five years -- they were behaving. They were engaging with South Korea.

Now, they are a very unusual regime. It's not easy to deal with them, but I think what we need to do is look at the options. Who are you going to isolate them with? The only way to deal with them is engaging them, and they are only going to deal with us, but I believe that the United Nations can now play a role, either having some kind of mediation on their part, Security Council getting involved. I think that allows North Koreans a way out. It can't be in a way that the North Koreans feel they're being blundered and hit upon the head, and I think the United Nations, I think, can play a very constructive role if we pursue it right, but I would be very concerned about a long-term isolation policy that I don't think we have much leverage with.

ZAHN: Well, we thank you for getting up at this ungodly hour to join us for AMERICAN MORNING. We always appreciate your perspective, and we'll be watching you at swearing time. When does that happen, sir?

RICHARDSON: That is going to be at midnight on the 31st.

ZAHN: Well, good luck to you. And again, thanks for joining us here on the holiday.

RICHARDSON: Thank you, Paula. Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com