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American Morning

Soundoff

Aired January 07, 2003 - 08:16   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: It is point, counterpoint on the economy. Tax cuts are the centerpiece of the president's economic plan, which he will unveil later today in Chicago. Democratic leaders presented a rival plan yesterday, which they claimed provides a more immediate boost for the economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: The Democratic plan stimulates. The president's plan procrastinates. The president's plan is too little, too late and much too irresponsible. The Democratic plan is significant, fast acting and is fiscally responsible. We stimulate the job market. The president's plan stimulates the stock market.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The critics hadn't seen the plan. This is a plan that provides tax relief to the working citizens. It's a plan that is a very fair plan. It's a plan that recognizes when somebody has more of their own money, they're likely to spend it, which creates more jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Well, joining us now to try to cut through the spin, if we can do that, from Washington, Cliff May from the Foundation For Defense Of Democracies, and Democratic consultant Victor Kamber.

Welcome back, gentlemen.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning, Paula. How are you?

CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: All right, we're going to try to -- I am fine, thanks.

We're going to try to cut to the quick here by putting both plans side by side visually. The Bush plan costs $600 billion over a 10 year period. We're going to put some graphics up to support that. It eliminates the tax on stock dividends. It gives businesses and individuals a tax break, increases the child tax credit, decreases the marriage penalty tax, gives federal money to states and extends unemployment benefits.

So those just are the highlight of the Bush economic plan. Now, let's contrast that now with the Democratic plan and check out these statistics. The Democratic plan costs $136 billion. It gives people a one time $300 rebate, offers business tax relief for new equipment purchases, gives a boost to states and extends unemployment benefits.

So, Victor, help the average taxpayer out there who's being told by the Bush administration they will get $1,086 back, why that isn't a better idea?

KAMBER: Well, first of all, I'm not sure how you get the numbers that you just came up with, that they're going to get $1,086 back. Putting the rhetoric aside of the congressman and the president, the fact is the president's plan is not a stimulus. It will boost the economy -- the stock market, we hope. The Democratic plan basically is an immediate stimulus, it's immediate cash to consumers, hopefully that they will use. It doubles the unemployment compensation problem from -- the president's plan is 12 weeks, the Democratic plan is 26 weeks. And it's a short-term plan to try to boost the economy without going so great into debt, because the deficits that we're creating right now with a potential war for the future, we're mortgaging our future away.

The president's plan right, as we know it, and he's right, we haven't seen it specifically. All we know is the leaks from the White House. The tax -- the removal of the dividend from the stock market, stocks, helps nobody. You won't even see the relief till 2004. Corporations don't get any more money out of it. So there's no money that's going to go into the economy from that plan.

ZAHN: All right, let's give Cliff a chance...

KAMBER: It helps the rich.

ZAHN: ... to jump in here. That's is the rough, what Victor just closed with, Cliff, that this is a program that is skewed towards helping the rich. MAY: Yes, and that was going to be the Democrats' talking points no matter what Bush came out with. It wouldn't matter. That's what they have on the shelf and that's what they use. What you have here is a pretty balanced program. As you've pointed out, Paula, we're talking about extending unemployment benefits and boosting the child tax credit, helping working married couples and then a long-term growth plan for the economy because a growing economy provides more jobs, more goods and services and more tax revenue in the long run.

Look, Paula, I think the point here the Democrats understandably are frustrated over the results of the last two elections. But they can't start the 2004 election right now. There's work that the people of the United States expect the politicians to do before they start running again.

ZAHN: But what is fundamentally wrong... MAY: So the Democrats have...

ZAHN: ... with the Democratic plan, Cliff, where it is, as they say, front ended and that more of the relief comes in the first year? MAY: That...

ZAHN: Is that a mistake? MAY: That...

ZAHN: What's wrong with that? MAY: In a way it is, because you want to look over the long run and have a really, a pro-growth economic plan for the long run. The bigger the economy gets, the more jobs, the more tax revenue, even. You don't want to do things only for the short-term.

ZAHN: All right... MAY: You want a strong economy for the long- term.

ZAHN: Victor, react to that...

KAMBER: I don't see...

ZAHN: ... because Commerce Secretary Don Evans told me the same thing this morning. He said your plan provides just a quick fix. It's temporary. MAY: That's what I told him to tell you.

ZAHN: Oh, you did? Oh, you told... MAY: No.

ZAHN: You trained him today? You rehearsed him?-- MAY: Yes, I gave him his talking points. Yes.

ZAHN: You're saying that facetiously, Cliff.

KAMBER: I'm sorry, Paula...

ZAHN: Someone out there is going to believe you actually... MAY: I am. I'm just joking.

ZAHN: ... sat down with Commerce Secretary... MAY: Total joking.

ZAHN: All right, we were hoping it was a joke. MAY: I have not spoken to the Secretary. The Secretary and I do not speak.

KAMBER: Paula, the fact that the stock market may, and we don't know what's going to happen, go up, is not a growth for the -- there's no revenue from the stock market going up. A few wealthy people will get wealthier. The president's tax plan today, relief wise, if you're a millionaire, making a million dollars a year, you'll get about a $46,000 savings in 2004. The average American who makes $30,000 will get a $46 savings in 2004. That's the growth he's talking about. That's the future. MAY: Right.

KAMBER: I don't see the future. We have a problem today. The economy is stagnant today, for whatever reason. MAY: You know...

KAMBER: We want to make it healthy again. MAY: What people like Vic seem to have difficult grasping is that when people invest, they create new jobs. You take, it takes businesses to have jobs, unless you're going to have everybody work for the government. So new jobs, new businesses, growth in business, more products, more prosperity, more tax revenue, it all goes together and you kind of can't cut it up.

KAMBER: We all, we agree on one thing, if you spend money, you create jobs. The question is do you spend money in buying stocks or do you have money today for consumers to go out and buy cars and clothes and houses and refrigerators and... MAY: It's a fair...

KAMBER: ... stoves? MAY: It's a bare economic point.

ZAHN: All right, Cliff, I've got to give you 10 seconds and we've got to run along here. MAY: A bare economic point. One, if you want people to spend money, leave the money in their pockets. Don't bring it to Washington. Secondly, consumer spending is doing all right. What you want is for people not to be afraid to invest in new companies, new enterprises. I think Bush's plan is going to provide that.

ZAHN: You were right on. That was the 10 second mark. MAY: Right. I was quick.

ZAHN: All right, Cliff May, Victor Kamber, thank you for both of your perspectives.

KAMBER: Thank you. MAY: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: And we'd love to turn back to you as this becomes more actively debated when both plans are really out there before the public.

You can watch -- thank you, again.

You can watch CNN's live team coverage of the president's economic stimulus speech today at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. That would be 10:00 a.m. Pacific.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 7, 2003 - 08:16   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: It is point, counterpoint on the economy. Tax cuts are the centerpiece of the president's economic plan, which he will unveil later today in Chicago. Democratic leaders presented a rival plan yesterday, which they claimed provides a more immediate boost for the economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: The Democratic plan stimulates. The president's plan procrastinates. The president's plan is too little, too late and much too irresponsible. The Democratic plan is significant, fast acting and is fiscally responsible. We stimulate the job market. The president's plan stimulates the stock market.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The critics hadn't seen the plan. This is a plan that provides tax relief to the working citizens. It's a plan that is a very fair plan. It's a plan that recognizes when somebody has more of their own money, they're likely to spend it, which creates more jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Well, joining us now to try to cut through the spin, if we can do that, from Washington, Cliff May from the Foundation For Defense Of Democracies, and Democratic consultant Victor Kamber.

Welcome back, gentlemen.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning, Paula. How are you?

CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: All right, we're going to try to -- I am fine, thanks.

We're going to try to cut to the quick here by putting both plans side by side visually. The Bush plan costs $600 billion over a 10 year period. We're going to put some graphics up to support that. It eliminates the tax on stock dividends. It gives businesses and individuals a tax break, increases the child tax credit, decreases the marriage penalty tax, gives federal money to states and extends unemployment benefits.

So those just are the highlight of the Bush economic plan. Now, let's contrast that now with the Democratic plan and check out these statistics. The Democratic plan costs $136 billion. It gives people a one time $300 rebate, offers business tax relief for new equipment purchases, gives a boost to states and extends unemployment benefits.

So, Victor, help the average taxpayer out there who's being told by the Bush administration they will get $1,086 back, why that isn't a better idea?

KAMBER: Well, first of all, I'm not sure how you get the numbers that you just came up with, that they're going to get $1,086 back. Putting the rhetoric aside of the congressman and the president, the fact is the president's plan is not a stimulus. It will boost the economy -- the stock market, we hope. The Democratic plan basically is an immediate stimulus, it's immediate cash to consumers, hopefully that they will use. It doubles the unemployment compensation problem from -- the president's plan is 12 weeks, the Democratic plan is 26 weeks. And it's a short-term plan to try to boost the economy without going so great into debt, because the deficits that we're creating right now with a potential war for the future, we're mortgaging our future away.

The president's plan right, as we know it, and he's right, we haven't seen it specifically. All we know is the leaks from the White House. The tax -- the removal of the dividend from the stock market, stocks, helps nobody. You won't even see the relief till 2004. Corporations don't get any more money out of it. So there's no money that's going to go into the economy from that plan.

ZAHN: All right, let's give Cliff a chance...

KAMBER: It helps the rich.

ZAHN: ... to jump in here. That's is the rough, what Victor just closed with, Cliff, that this is a program that is skewed towards helping the rich. MAY: Yes, and that was going to be the Democrats' talking points no matter what Bush came out with. It wouldn't matter. That's what they have on the shelf and that's what they use. What you have here is a pretty balanced program. As you've pointed out, Paula, we're talking about extending unemployment benefits and boosting the child tax credit, helping working married couples and then a long-term growth plan for the economy because a growing economy provides more jobs, more goods and services and more tax revenue in the long run.

Look, Paula, I think the point here the Democrats understandably are frustrated over the results of the last two elections. But they can't start the 2004 election right now. There's work that the people of the United States expect the politicians to do before they start running again.

ZAHN: But what is fundamentally wrong... MAY: So the Democrats have...

ZAHN: ... with the Democratic plan, Cliff, where it is, as they say, front ended and that more of the relief comes in the first year? MAY: That...

ZAHN: Is that a mistake? MAY: That...

ZAHN: What's wrong with that? MAY: In a way it is, because you want to look over the long run and have a really, a pro-growth economic plan for the long run. The bigger the economy gets, the more jobs, the more tax revenue, even. You don't want to do things only for the short-term.

ZAHN: All right... MAY: You want a strong economy for the long- term.

ZAHN: Victor, react to that...

KAMBER: I don't see...

ZAHN: ... because Commerce Secretary Don Evans told me the same thing this morning. He said your plan provides just a quick fix. It's temporary. MAY: That's what I told him to tell you.

ZAHN: Oh, you did? Oh, you told... MAY: No.

ZAHN: You trained him today? You rehearsed him?-- MAY: Yes, I gave him his talking points. Yes.

ZAHN: You're saying that facetiously, Cliff.

KAMBER: I'm sorry, Paula...

ZAHN: Someone out there is going to believe you actually... MAY: I am. I'm just joking.

ZAHN: ... sat down with Commerce Secretary... MAY: Total joking.

ZAHN: All right, we were hoping it was a joke. MAY: I have not spoken to the Secretary. The Secretary and I do not speak.

KAMBER: Paula, the fact that the stock market may, and we don't know what's going to happen, go up, is not a growth for the -- there's no revenue from the stock market going up. A few wealthy people will get wealthier. The president's tax plan today, relief wise, if you're a millionaire, making a million dollars a year, you'll get about a $46,000 savings in 2004. The average American who makes $30,000 will get a $46 savings in 2004. That's the growth he's talking about. That's the future. MAY: Right.

KAMBER: I don't see the future. We have a problem today. The economy is stagnant today, for whatever reason. MAY: You know...

KAMBER: We want to make it healthy again. MAY: What people like Vic seem to have difficult grasping is that when people invest, they create new jobs. You take, it takes businesses to have jobs, unless you're going to have everybody work for the government. So new jobs, new businesses, growth in business, more products, more prosperity, more tax revenue, it all goes together and you kind of can't cut it up.

KAMBER: We all, we agree on one thing, if you spend money, you create jobs. The question is do you spend money in buying stocks or do you have money today for consumers to go out and buy cars and clothes and houses and refrigerators and... MAY: It's a fair...

KAMBER: ... stoves? MAY: It's a bare economic point.

ZAHN: All right, Cliff, I've got to give you 10 seconds and we've got to run along here. MAY: A bare economic point. One, if you want people to spend money, leave the money in their pockets. Don't bring it to Washington. Secondly, consumer spending is doing all right. What you want is for people not to be afraid to invest in new companies, new enterprises. I think Bush's plan is going to provide that.

ZAHN: You were right on. That was the 10 second mark. MAY: Right. I was quick.

ZAHN: All right, Cliff May, Victor Kamber, thank you for both of your perspectives.

KAMBER: Thank you. MAY: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: And we'd love to turn back to you as this becomes more actively debated when both plans are really out there before the public.

You can watch -- thank you, again.

You can watch CNN's live team coverage of the president's economic stimulus speech today at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. That would be 10:00 a.m. Pacific.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com