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American Morning

'I Object'

Aired January 09, 2003 - 07:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning we begin a regular segment with our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. It's called I Object. We're going to be looking at intriguing legal cases.
First up on our docket, a question of free speech that the Supreme Court might consider in its upcoming session. This case centers on a memorial to students killed in the Columbine shooting.

Jeffrey Toobin joins us now with a closer look.

How are you this morning?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm great.

ZAHN: So this one's got your dander up?

TOOBIN: It really does.

ZAHN: Now, tell me why. Let's look at pictures of the memorials.

TOOBIN: OK. OK.

ZAHN: So people can understand why this is even being talked about by the Supreme Court.

TOOBIN: Very simple case.

ZAHN: You see nice little kids here painting tiles.

TOOBIN: Kids, four inches by four inches, the high school at Columbine, very nice idea, decided to do a memorial to the students who were killed there and let the students speak. The students could do these little four by four tiles to express their own feelings about the school, about what happened and the school said that's fine, everybody can do what they want with one exception. They said the kids could not make any reference on the tiles to god, Jesus, the church, anything like that.

So those tiles were totally censored, not allowed to be put up. Some of the parents and the students have objected and gone to court. In the district court, in the trial court, they won. The court said...

ZAHN: On the basis of the court saying you...

TOOBIN: It's saying... ZAHN: ... these kids were censored.

TOOBIN: ... these kids were censored. But the Court of Appeals in Denver said no, this was a violation of the separation between church and state to let these kids write god on the tiles. And the Supreme Court is going to meet to decide whether to take the case Friday and we should know the decision on Monday.

ZAHN: Do you think the Supreme Court will end up hearing this case?

TOOBIN: You know, I do, actually, because I think this is an area where the court is always trying to sort out the rules. And, admittedly, the rules are very complicated. You know, every year we have cases about whether a crest can be put up and there are always cases about whether prayer groups can meet in schools and whether there can be prayers at football games. But what's so outrageous to me about this case is that here you have not the school endorsing religion, which is inappropriate...

ZAHN: These are individual children.

TOOBIN: It's not about separation of church and state, it's about freedom of speech. It's about letting kids say what they want. And what I think, it's just a perversion of such an important part of the constitution, which is the separation of church and state, to censor these kids from saying anything they want about god.

ZAHN: So they're, it's OK for them to do these tiles at home and display them at home, you just can't display these in public?

TOOBIN: Well, you can't -- look...

ZAHN: Is that basically what they're being told?

TOOBIN: You can't display them in a public building, which is a little like saying to the kids well, you know, you can speak in favor of Republicans but you can't speak in favor of Democrats. It's censoring kids based on content. And as far as I've always understood the constitution, you can't do that.

ZAHN: How riled up are some of these parents?

TOOBIN: Well, I think the parents, the parents are furious because, I mean, think about it, the emotions surrounded Columbine are pretty heightened to start with.

ZAHN: Well, they're raw.

TOOBIN: And, you know, religion is an important part of how people comfort themselves, how people deal with a tragedy like this. And it's perfectly understandable, perfectly predictable that kids would want to do this, at least some kids would want to in their tiles. And here, I mean what rational person walking into the school seeing hundreds of tiles, one of which made a reference to the lord, would think that the school... ZAHN: Oh, I am alienated.

TOOBIN: Well, or also would think that the school is somehow endorsing religion? It makes no sense at all.

ZAHN: Well, I guess the question, the final question is where do you stop with this?

TOOBIN: Well...

ZAHN: What does that mean? In the classroom you can't make any reference to god ever and you can't post it on a bulletin board in school?

TOOBIN: See, that's why I think, you know, it takes such an important principle, which I think is a good principle, which is keeping religion, you know, out of the government's hands, and perverts it into telling people what they can and can't say, what they can't think, the views they can't express.

So I'm counting on the Supreme Court to take the case on Monday and I've been wrong before.

ZAHN: And we know exactly how you'd weigh in if you were sitting on the Supreme Court.

TOOBIN: Yes.

ZAHN: You've made that very clear this morning.

TOOBIN: Talk about a far fetched hypothetical, but, yes, I'm not going to be on that court anyhow.

ZAHN: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.

TOOBIN: Good to see you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired January 9, 2003 - 07:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning we begin a regular segment with our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. It's called I Object. We're going to be looking at intriguing legal cases.
First up on our docket, a question of free speech that the Supreme Court might consider in its upcoming session. This case centers on a memorial to students killed in the Columbine shooting.

Jeffrey Toobin joins us now with a closer look.

How are you this morning?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm great.

ZAHN: So this one's got your dander up?

TOOBIN: It really does.

ZAHN: Now, tell me why. Let's look at pictures of the memorials.

TOOBIN: OK. OK.

ZAHN: So people can understand why this is even being talked about by the Supreme Court.

TOOBIN: Very simple case.

ZAHN: You see nice little kids here painting tiles.

TOOBIN: Kids, four inches by four inches, the high school at Columbine, very nice idea, decided to do a memorial to the students who were killed there and let the students speak. The students could do these little four by four tiles to express their own feelings about the school, about what happened and the school said that's fine, everybody can do what they want with one exception. They said the kids could not make any reference on the tiles to god, Jesus, the church, anything like that.

So those tiles were totally censored, not allowed to be put up. Some of the parents and the students have objected and gone to court. In the district court, in the trial court, they won. The court said...

ZAHN: On the basis of the court saying you...

TOOBIN: It's saying... ZAHN: ... these kids were censored.

TOOBIN: ... these kids were censored. But the Court of Appeals in Denver said no, this was a violation of the separation between church and state to let these kids write god on the tiles. And the Supreme Court is going to meet to decide whether to take the case Friday and we should know the decision on Monday.

ZAHN: Do you think the Supreme Court will end up hearing this case?

TOOBIN: You know, I do, actually, because I think this is an area where the court is always trying to sort out the rules. And, admittedly, the rules are very complicated. You know, every year we have cases about whether a crest can be put up and there are always cases about whether prayer groups can meet in schools and whether there can be prayers at football games. But what's so outrageous to me about this case is that here you have not the school endorsing religion, which is inappropriate...

ZAHN: These are individual children.

TOOBIN: It's not about separation of church and state, it's about freedom of speech. It's about letting kids say what they want. And what I think, it's just a perversion of such an important part of the constitution, which is the separation of church and state, to censor these kids from saying anything they want about god.

ZAHN: So they're, it's OK for them to do these tiles at home and display them at home, you just can't display these in public?

TOOBIN: Well, you can't -- look...

ZAHN: Is that basically what they're being told?

TOOBIN: You can't display them in a public building, which is a little like saying to the kids well, you know, you can speak in favor of Republicans but you can't speak in favor of Democrats. It's censoring kids based on content. And as far as I've always understood the constitution, you can't do that.

ZAHN: How riled up are some of these parents?

TOOBIN: Well, I think the parents, the parents are furious because, I mean, think about it, the emotions surrounded Columbine are pretty heightened to start with.

ZAHN: Well, they're raw.

TOOBIN: And, you know, religion is an important part of how people comfort themselves, how people deal with a tragedy like this. And it's perfectly understandable, perfectly predictable that kids would want to do this, at least some kids would want to in their tiles. And here, I mean what rational person walking into the school seeing hundreds of tiles, one of which made a reference to the lord, would think that the school... ZAHN: Oh, I am alienated.

TOOBIN: Well, or also would think that the school is somehow endorsing religion? It makes no sense at all.

ZAHN: Well, I guess the question, the final question is where do you stop with this?

TOOBIN: Well...

ZAHN: What does that mean? In the classroom you can't make any reference to god ever and you can't post it on a bulletin board in school?

TOOBIN: See, that's why I think, you know, it takes such an important principle, which I think is a good principle, which is keeping religion, you know, out of the government's hands, and perverts it into telling people what they can and can't say, what they can't think, the views they can't express.

So I'm counting on the Supreme Court to take the case on Monday and I've been wrong before.

ZAHN: And we know exactly how you'd weigh in if you were sitting on the Supreme Court.

TOOBIN: Yes.

ZAHN: You've made that very clear this morning.

TOOBIN: Talk about a far fetched hypothetical, but, yes, I'm not going to be on that court anyhow.

ZAHN: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.

TOOBIN: Good to see you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com