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American Morning

Interview With Senator Richard Lugar

Aired January 14, 2003 - 07:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Is Beijing the fastest way for Washington to get to North Korea? Well, Assistant Secretary of States James Kelly is in China to explore the possibility of talks with Pyongyang. The administration's efforts are getting mixed reviews on Capitol Hill.
Senator Richard Lugar of Indiana is chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. He joins is now from the capital.

Good to see you again. I think this is your first appearance this year.

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN), FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Welcome back -- good morning.

LUGAR: Thank you.

ZAHN: First of all, what do you make of what you're hearing from James Kelly? What does this mean?

LUGAR: Well, essentially, Assistant Secretary Kelly is attempting to gain the attention of our South Korean friends; likewise, the Chinese, who ought to play a part in diplomacy there. They're looking for what North Korea wants. And now, North Korea may want to talk about the future of its economy. It may want to talk about a non-aggression pact -- that is, assurances that the United States or another nation would not attack it. It may want to talk about fuel for a cold winter that they're enduring now, or want more humanitarian aid.

But in any event, the United States indicated we are prepared to talk, not to negotiate or to give things away, but to talk and to try to illuminate really what the framework of a negotiation might be.

ZAHN: And, Senator, you made it very clear that if you are to negotiate ultimately with the North Koreans, you have to make it clear to them that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Now, you just laid out for us some of the possibilities of what the North Koreans might be looking for. What concessions do you believe the U.S. is going to have to offer?

LUGAR: Well, the United States will not initially offer concessions, and it may not offer any at the end of the day. But we might make a prospect in which somehow the situation in North Korea gets back to where the agreed framework was, which is to say that there were fuel oil shipments under way, there was no further progress to develop nuclear weapons. As a matter of fact, if North Korea would come back under the Non-Proliferation Treaty, we'd be back to where were, but with one significant change, and that is the world will want to monitor what is going on in the North Korea nuclear business.

ZAHN: Let's talk about something "The Wall Street Journal" was reporting. They apparently spoke with Secretary of State Colin Powell, and he pretty much lays out in that interview that he doesn't even think going back to the 1994 framework is a good idea. He's even talking about restructuring that. What are the chances of that flying when the allies at this moment seem to overwhelmingly support this 1994 agreement?

LUGAR: Well, the allies would also support what Secretary Powell was suggesting, and that is that there really has to be a much better look-see by the rest of the world. We've had the International Atomic Energy group there. They've been kicked out, but they will need to come back.

But more than that, we really need to know about the North Korean programs, assurances that they have stopped, that they are not involved. The North Koreans, interestingly enough, have denied really that they are plunging on toward development, or that they have done very much of it at this point. But no one knows.

And the technical side of this, Governor Richardson of New Mexico apparently discussed with the North Korean delegates that came from the U.N., and that is still another avenue that might be useful to approach.

ZAHN: Final question for you. We've got just about 15 seconds left on the satellite. USA-CNN Today put out a Gallup Poll reading today showing that President Bush's job approval rating is the lowest it has been since September 11, rising -- apparently just showing a rising uncertainty about a sluggish economy and concerns about Iraq and North Korea. How concerned should the administration be about these numbers?

LUGAR: Well, it was a fairly small drop, as I understand, about 3 percentage points. It appears to me the administration's course cannot be governed by the weekly polls, and nor will it be.

ZAHN: Senator Lugar, we're going to leave it at that. Thanks again for your time this morning.

LUGAR: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Appreciate your dropping by.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired January 14, 2003 - 07:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Is Beijing the fastest way for Washington to get to North Korea? Well, Assistant Secretary of States James Kelly is in China to explore the possibility of talks with Pyongyang. The administration's efforts are getting mixed reviews on Capitol Hill.
Senator Richard Lugar of Indiana is chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. He joins is now from the capital.

Good to see you again. I think this is your first appearance this year.

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN), FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Welcome back -- good morning.

LUGAR: Thank you.

ZAHN: First of all, what do you make of what you're hearing from James Kelly? What does this mean?

LUGAR: Well, essentially, Assistant Secretary Kelly is attempting to gain the attention of our South Korean friends; likewise, the Chinese, who ought to play a part in diplomacy there. They're looking for what North Korea wants. And now, North Korea may want to talk about the future of its economy. It may want to talk about a non-aggression pact -- that is, assurances that the United States or another nation would not attack it. It may want to talk about fuel for a cold winter that they're enduring now, or want more humanitarian aid.

But in any event, the United States indicated we are prepared to talk, not to negotiate or to give things away, but to talk and to try to illuminate really what the framework of a negotiation might be.

ZAHN: And, Senator, you made it very clear that if you are to negotiate ultimately with the North Koreans, you have to make it clear to them that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Now, you just laid out for us some of the possibilities of what the North Koreans might be looking for. What concessions do you believe the U.S. is going to have to offer?

LUGAR: Well, the United States will not initially offer concessions, and it may not offer any at the end of the day. But we might make a prospect in which somehow the situation in North Korea gets back to where the agreed framework was, which is to say that there were fuel oil shipments under way, there was no further progress to develop nuclear weapons. As a matter of fact, if North Korea would come back under the Non-Proliferation Treaty, we'd be back to where were, but with one significant change, and that is the world will want to monitor what is going on in the North Korea nuclear business.

ZAHN: Let's talk about something "The Wall Street Journal" was reporting. They apparently spoke with Secretary of State Colin Powell, and he pretty much lays out in that interview that he doesn't even think going back to the 1994 framework is a good idea. He's even talking about restructuring that. What are the chances of that flying when the allies at this moment seem to overwhelmingly support this 1994 agreement?

LUGAR: Well, the allies would also support what Secretary Powell was suggesting, and that is that there really has to be a much better look-see by the rest of the world. We've had the International Atomic Energy group there. They've been kicked out, but they will need to come back.

But more than that, we really need to know about the North Korean programs, assurances that they have stopped, that they are not involved. The North Koreans, interestingly enough, have denied really that they are plunging on toward development, or that they have done very much of it at this point. But no one knows.

And the technical side of this, Governor Richardson of New Mexico apparently discussed with the North Korean delegates that came from the U.N., and that is still another avenue that might be useful to approach.

ZAHN: Final question for you. We've got just about 15 seconds left on the satellite. USA-CNN Today put out a Gallup Poll reading today showing that President Bush's job approval rating is the lowest it has been since September 11, rising -- apparently just showing a rising uncertainty about a sluggish economy and concerns about Iraq and North Korea. How concerned should the administration be about these numbers?

LUGAR: Well, it was a fairly small drop, as I understand, about 3 percentage points. It appears to me the administration's course cannot be governed by the weekly polls, and nor will it be.

ZAHN: Senator Lugar, we're going to leave it at that. Thanks again for your time this morning.

LUGAR: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Appreciate your dropping by.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.