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American Morning
Discussion With Sen. Carl Levin
Aired January 15, 2003 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: On to the issue of North Korea and Iraq. President Bush says time is running out on Saddam Hussein to disarm. But while troops build up in the Persian Gulf, the president is pressing for a peaceful solution to the standoff with North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People say are you willing to talk to North Korea? Of course we are. But what this nation won't do is be blackmailed. And what this nation will do is use this as an opportunity to bring the Chinese and the Russians and the South Koreans and the Japanese to the table to solve this problem peacefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So what is next in the standoffs with North Korea and Iraq?
Let's turn to Senator Carl Levin, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, who joins us this morning from the Senate.
Good morning, sir.
Welcome back.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: First off, your reaction to what the president indicated yesterday, that he might offer some sort of a deal to the North Koreans if they dismantle their nuclear weapons program and perhaps even offer them security.
LEVIN: Well, that's a change in policy and it's a welcome one. The president just a few weeks ago said there was no way he was going to talk to the North Koreans. They would have to do a lot of things first. And now he says of course he'll talk to the North Koreans and it seems to me we should do so.
That doesn't mean concessions. It means discussions. And that always in order, it seems to me, and we've got to work with our South Korean allies. Too often this administration has just skated out on their own, acted unilaterally, gone, taken positions without even consulting with our partners, the South Koreans, and apparently that's now changing, too, and the president is becoming more realistic. I hope he stays that way and drops some of the hot rhetoric, calling the leader of North Korea names, which just plays into the paranoia of the North Koreans.
ZAHN: Let me ask you this, what -- you say that we're not necessarily talking about concessions here, but at least getting a dialogue started. What is the most, do you think, the U.S. could give up or offer that would not appear as nuclear blackmail?
LEVIN: It depends how people will label it and characterize it. But the bottom line is that if we can get the securities, the denuclearization securities on the peninsula that we want, because we don't want North Korea to go nuclear, that we should be willing to participate in economic and security guarantees for the North Koreans.
But most importantly, we ought to work with our South Korean allies. Just, this administration, about three or four times, has pulled the rug out from under the South Koreans just by acting unilaterally, making statements of policy unilaterally, cutting off discussions with the North Koreans when this administration came to office, unilaterally without consultation with our allies.
We've got to work with the South Koreans. But at the end of this, if we're going to have a secure Korea, both North and South, there's going to have to be an exchange of security and economic guarantees to the North in exchange for open, denuclearization, transparent, confirmed, ratified denuclearization in the North.
ZAHN: We know that there is talk of some low level meetings taking place between North Korean representatives at the U.N. and members of the Bush administration. You also have this twin track now, the South Koreans apparently sitting down and talking with the North Koreans some time next week. Which of these two tracks do you think holds the most promise?
LEVIN: Well, I think all the tracks have to be pursued. But we might as well talk directly to the North Koreans rather than talking either through the media or through intermediaries. It seems to me that that's the most likely way that they'll understand exactly what our position is and how strong our feelings are and what we're willing to do in terms of giving them security that we're not going to attack them in exchange for them dropping this new nuclear program.
They did make a certain commitment, which was important, in the early '90s. They kept the, at least the plutonium part of that commitment. But they violated the uranium part of that deal. And so now we want them to keep both parts of the agreement.
ZAHN: Do you think that President Clinton just cut a bad deal? We've heard so much about the deficiencies of this '94 framework.
LEVIN: Not according --
ZAHN: I mean almost everybody acknowledges it could have been better. LEVIN: Sure. According to Secretary Powell, that was progress. He has complimented the Clinton administration. The current secretary of state has said that that, the Clinton administration made some progress in getting that framework agreement accomplished and it seems to me that that is correct. That doesn't mean that there weren't flaws. It doesn't mean that it wasn't two steps forward, one step back.
But nonetheless, the best thing to do here is dialogue, direct discussions and communications with the North, stop the name calling, stop the hot rhetoric, forget this business about calling their leader a pygmy or loathing him. We're going to end up having to discuss and negotiate with this axis of evil and we might as well get on with it and try to reduce that threat.
That seems to me the most direct and the best, the most positive way of going about it.
ZAHN: Sir, I'm told I've just got 15 seconds left. How much time would you give Saddam Hussein to comply with this latest resolution?
LEVIN: We should complete those, the, what we're doing now, which is the inspections, and we should provide the inspectors all the information that we have that does not involve names of people who've given us the information. Sources and methods have to be protected, but we, it seems to me, should be providing all the information we can. We've just begun to do that.
ZAHN: Senator Carl Levin, always good to see you.
Thanks for dropping by AMERICAN MORNING this morning.
LEVIN: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 15, 2003 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: On to the issue of North Korea and Iraq. President Bush says time is running out on Saddam Hussein to disarm. But while troops build up in the Persian Gulf, the president is pressing for a peaceful solution to the standoff with North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People say are you willing to talk to North Korea? Of course we are. But what this nation won't do is be blackmailed. And what this nation will do is use this as an opportunity to bring the Chinese and the Russians and the South Koreans and the Japanese to the table to solve this problem peacefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So what is next in the standoffs with North Korea and Iraq?
Let's turn to Senator Carl Levin, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, who joins us this morning from the Senate.
Good morning, sir.
Welcome back.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: First off, your reaction to what the president indicated yesterday, that he might offer some sort of a deal to the North Koreans if they dismantle their nuclear weapons program and perhaps even offer them security.
LEVIN: Well, that's a change in policy and it's a welcome one. The president just a few weeks ago said there was no way he was going to talk to the North Koreans. They would have to do a lot of things first. And now he says of course he'll talk to the North Koreans and it seems to me we should do so.
That doesn't mean concessions. It means discussions. And that always in order, it seems to me, and we've got to work with our South Korean allies. Too often this administration has just skated out on their own, acted unilaterally, gone, taken positions without even consulting with our partners, the South Koreans, and apparently that's now changing, too, and the president is becoming more realistic. I hope he stays that way and drops some of the hot rhetoric, calling the leader of North Korea names, which just plays into the paranoia of the North Koreans.
ZAHN: Let me ask you this, what -- you say that we're not necessarily talking about concessions here, but at least getting a dialogue started. What is the most, do you think, the U.S. could give up or offer that would not appear as nuclear blackmail?
LEVIN: It depends how people will label it and characterize it. But the bottom line is that if we can get the securities, the denuclearization securities on the peninsula that we want, because we don't want North Korea to go nuclear, that we should be willing to participate in economic and security guarantees for the North Koreans.
But most importantly, we ought to work with our South Korean allies. Just, this administration, about three or four times, has pulled the rug out from under the South Koreans just by acting unilaterally, making statements of policy unilaterally, cutting off discussions with the North Koreans when this administration came to office, unilaterally without consultation with our allies.
We've got to work with the South Koreans. But at the end of this, if we're going to have a secure Korea, both North and South, there's going to have to be an exchange of security and economic guarantees to the North in exchange for open, denuclearization, transparent, confirmed, ratified denuclearization in the North.
ZAHN: We know that there is talk of some low level meetings taking place between North Korean representatives at the U.N. and members of the Bush administration. You also have this twin track now, the South Koreans apparently sitting down and talking with the North Koreans some time next week. Which of these two tracks do you think holds the most promise?
LEVIN: Well, I think all the tracks have to be pursued. But we might as well talk directly to the North Koreans rather than talking either through the media or through intermediaries. It seems to me that that's the most likely way that they'll understand exactly what our position is and how strong our feelings are and what we're willing to do in terms of giving them security that we're not going to attack them in exchange for them dropping this new nuclear program.
They did make a certain commitment, which was important, in the early '90s. They kept the, at least the plutonium part of that commitment. But they violated the uranium part of that deal. And so now we want them to keep both parts of the agreement.
ZAHN: Do you think that President Clinton just cut a bad deal? We've heard so much about the deficiencies of this '94 framework.
LEVIN: Not according --
ZAHN: I mean almost everybody acknowledges it could have been better. LEVIN: Sure. According to Secretary Powell, that was progress. He has complimented the Clinton administration. The current secretary of state has said that that, the Clinton administration made some progress in getting that framework agreement accomplished and it seems to me that that is correct. That doesn't mean that there weren't flaws. It doesn't mean that it wasn't two steps forward, one step back.
But nonetheless, the best thing to do here is dialogue, direct discussions and communications with the North, stop the name calling, stop the hot rhetoric, forget this business about calling their leader a pygmy or loathing him. We're going to end up having to discuss and negotiate with this axis of evil and we might as well get on with it and try to reduce that threat.
That seems to me the most direct and the best, the most positive way of going about it.
ZAHN: Sir, I'm told I've just got 15 seconds left. How much time would you give Saddam Hussein to comply with this latest resolution?
LEVIN: We should complete those, the, what we're doing now, which is the inspections, and we should provide the inspectors all the information that we have that does not involve names of people who've given us the information. Sources and methods have to be protected, but we, it seems to me, should be providing all the information we can. We've just begun to do that.
ZAHN: Senator Carl Levin, always good to see you.
Thanks for dropping by AMERICAN MORNING this morning.
LEVIN: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
