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American Morning
Georgia Still Fighting Over State Flag
Aired January 20, 2003 - 07:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: More than 34 years after the death of Martin Luther King, Jr., Georgia is still fighting over its state flag. Some say the old flag, adopted back in 1956, is racist. Others claim the current flag, introduced two years ago, ignores Southern heritage.
Republican Representative Warren Massey and Democrat Tyrone Brooks join us this morning from the CNN Center in Atlanta to debate this issue that yet again is ongoing.
Gentlemen, good morning to you.
Thanks for your time today.
REP. TYRONE BROOKS (D), GEORGIA LEGISLATOR: Good morning.
REP. WARREN MASSEY (R), GEORGIA LEGISLATOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: Representative Massey, tell me why the flag is so critical to the history of the South and the heritage.
MASSEY: Well, the flag has been with us since 1956. It was put in at a time to honor the history of the Civil War, when the last Confederate was still alive. It's flown for, you know, 40 years, or almost. And it's been a time of prosperity in Georgia and we didn't think it needed to be changed.
HEMMER: Representative Brooks, why, then, so offensive?
BROOKS: Well, the flag obviously was a symbol of slavery. It flew over the states that were part of the Confederate States of America. The whole issue of the flag started after 1956 because in 1956 the flag was changed. The Confederate battle emblem was added in 1956 to protest school desegregation, integration of public accommodations and voting rights for African-Americans.
It was a protest flag designed to say no to the U.S. Supreme Court ruling on school desegregation, no to voting rights for African- Americans. Really, the whole civil rights movement was in its really infancy stage. Dr. King and Dr. Abernathy were leading the movement over in Montgomery, Alabama to desegregate the buses. You know, Thurgood Marshall had argued before the U.S. Supreme Court in the "Brown vote. (ph) Board of Education" case.
So there was a whole backlash coming out of the South to all of the progressive measures coming out of Washington, particularly from the White House, Congress and the Supreme Court. So it's been an insult to African-Americans and many whites for many, many years.
So in January of 2001, the legislators decided that we were going to change the flag and bring a flag up that all of the people of Georgia could honor and celebrate.
HEMMER: So your point is that it's an insult. I understand that.
Representative Massey, if it is such an insult, then, are there not other ways to recognize Southern heritage, sir?
MASSEY: Well, there are many ways to recognize Southern heritage. But this flag is a beautiful flag and it's the pride of Dixie. The Civil War wasn't fought over slavery, it was fought over secession from the Union. So it's a flag of rebellion against an over bearing federal government at a time when the South wanted to secede under the constitution.
HEMMER: But then again, aren't there other ways to show that?
MASSEY: We have tried to show it in other ways, but if the flag had been discussed at the time of the change of the flag, we would have been happy with whatever the results had been. But the people of Georgia didn't get a chance to vote. We got no input. The flag change was delivered to us in the legislature 30 minutes before we were required to vote on it.
BROOKS: Bill...
HEMMER: Representative Brooks, we want to get you -- go ahead. I want to get your last word in here.
BROOKS: Well, Bill...
HEMMER: But part of the argument here going forward is who decides whether or not this flag comes back. And in addition to that, what we are hearing now is the economic fallout for this could be devastating. How bad could it be if the national image of Georgia continues to focus on the past and 1956 and this whole issue of racism in that state? And what does it say, then, about the state of race in Georgia today?
BROOKS: Bill, first of all, there was no public vote in 1956. The legislature met. It was all white, all male. They met. They voted. They changed the flag in 1956. In 2001, the legislature was 19 percent African-American, Democrats, Republicans, all of us, women voted to change the flag.
There has never been a public referendum on the Georgia flag. We're not a referenda state. We're not like a California, where you put everything on the ballot through a public referendum.
If we're going to open the door on referendum, Bill, we might as well put the budget out for a referendum. We put a moratorium on the death penalty out for a referendum. Let's have a vote on school education issues for referendum. The governor has proposed tax increases. Let's put that out for a referendum.
We're not a referenda state.
HEMMER: Got it.
BROOKS: We are a republic form of government. The people elect us to make law.
HEMMER: Thank you, sir.
I appreciate it.
Tyrone Brooks, Warren Massey, the debate continues, and probably will not be decided for about three years from now.
We'll track it.
Thank you, men.
Have a good Monday.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 20, 2003 - 07:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: More than 34 years after the death of Martin Luther King, Jr., Georgia is still fighting over its state flag. Some say the old flag, adopted back in 1956, is racist. Others claim the current flag, introduced two years ago, ignores Southern heritage.
Republican Representative Warren Massey and Democrat Tyrone Brooks join us this morning from the CNN Center in Atlanta to debate this issue that yet again is ongoing.
Gentlemen, good morning to you.
Thanks for your time today.
REP. TYRONE BROOKS (D), GEORGIA LEGISLATOR: Good morning.
REP. WARREN MASSEY (R), GEORGIA LEGISLATOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: Representative Massey, tell me why the flag is so critical to the history of the South and the heritage.
MASSEY: Well, the flag has been with us since 1956. It was put in at a time to honor the history of the Civil War, when the last Confederate was still alive. It's flown for, you know, 40 years, or almost. And it's been a time of prosperity in Georgia and we didn't think it needed to be changed.
HEMMER: Representative Brooks, why, then, so offensive?
BROOKS: Well, the flag obviously was a symbol of slavery. It flew over the states that were part of the Confederate States of America. The whole issue of the flag started after 1956 because in 1956 the flag was changed. The Confederate battle emblem was added in 1956 to protest school desegregation, integration of public accommodations and voting rights for African-Americans.
It was a protest flag designed to say no to the U.S. Supreme Court ruling on school desegregation, no to voting rights for African- Americans. Really, the whole civil rights movement was in its really infancy stage. Dr. King and Dr. Abernathy were leading the movement over in Montgomery, Alabama to desegregate the buses. You know, Thurgood Marshall had argued before the U.S. Supreme Court in the "Brown vote. (ph) Board of Education" case.
So there was a whole backlash coming out of the South to all of the progressive measures coming out of Washington, particularly from the White House, Congress and the Supreme Court. So it's been an insult to African-Americans and many whites for many, many years.
So in January of 2001, the legislators decided that we were going to change the flag and bring a flag up that all of the people of Georgia could honor and celebrate.
HEMMER: So your point is that it's an insult. I understand that.
Representative Massey, if it is such an insult, then, are there not other ways to recognize Southern heritage, sir?
MASSEY: Well, there are many ways to recognize Southern heritage. But this flag is a beautiful flag and it's the pride of Dixie. The Civil War wasn't fought over slavery, it was fought over secession from the Union. So it's a flag of rebellion against an over bearing federal government at a time when the South wanted to secede under the constitution.
HEMMER: But then again, aren't there other ways to show that?
MASSEY: We have tried to show it in other ways, but if the flag had been discussed at the time of the change of the flag, we would have been happy with whatever the results had been. But the people of Georgia didn't get a chance to vote. We got no input. The flag change was delivered to us in the legislature 30 minutes before we were required to vote on it.
BROOKS: Bill...
HEMMER: Representative Brooks, we want to get you -- go ahead. I want to get your last word in here.
BROOKS: Well, Bill...
HEMMER: But part of the argument here going forward is who decides whether or not this flag comes back. And in addition to that, what we are hearing now is the economic fallout for this could be devastating. How bad could it be if the national image of Georgia continues to focus on the past and 1956 and this whole issue of racism in that state? And what does it say, then, about the state of race in Georgia today?
BROOKS: Bill, first of all, there was no public vote in 1956. The legislature met. It was all white, all male. They met. They voted. They changed the flag in 1956. In 2001, the legislature was 19 percent African-American, Democrats, Republicans, all of us, women voted to change the flag.
There has never been a public referendum on the Georgia flag. We're not a referenda state. We're not like a California, where you put everything on the ballot through a public referendum.
If we're going to open the door on referendum, Bill, we might as well put the budget out for a referendum. We put a moratorium on the death penalty out for a referendum. Let's have a vote on school education issues for referendum. The governor has proposed tax increases. Let's put that out for a referendum.
We're not a referenda state.
HEMMER: Got it.
BROOKS: We are a republic form of government. The people elect us to make law.
HEMMER: Thank you, sir.
I appreciate it.
Tyrone Brooks, Warren Massey, the debate continues, and probably will not be decided for about three years from now.
We'll track it.
Thank you, men.
Have a good Monday.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
