Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Interview With Daniel Poneman

Aired January 21, 2003 - 08:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to turn our attention now to North Korea and the latest diplomatic efforts to end the nuclear stand-off. Russia's foreign minister presented a plan to resolve the conflict during meetings with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il and cabinet level talks between North and South Korea are taking place in Seoul.
Daniel Poneman, a former national security official, helped negotiate the 1994 nuclear agreement with North Korea.

He joins us now from Washington.

Welcome back.

Good to see you.

DANIEL PONEMAN, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY OFFICIAL: Good morning.

ZAHN: I wanted to put up on the screen some of the components of this Russian plan so we can get your insights into what's being offered here.

Is any of this stuff going to work?

PONEMAN: I think it's an interesting ploy and I'm hopeful that there may be some promise in it. The specific elements that the Russians are reported to have offered, the North-South denuclearization, the return to compliance with North Korea's earlier commitments, the assurances of no attack from the United States and the possibility of other assistance to North Korea are very much the kinds of things that I think could provide a promising route to a deal.

ZAHN: You used an interesting phrase. You just called it an interesting ploy. What should we read into that, that this isn't a legitimate offer?

PONEMAN: I don't think it's legitimate or illegitimate per se. I think the critical point now is you have had one foray into this field. The Russians clearly have been consulting with the U.S. and I think to convert it from a ploy or a diplomatic gambit into something more meaningful will require much further diplomacy. Perhaps you'll have some between the North and the South in their ministerial talks today, and ultimately obviously the U.S. itself would have to step into a role here if this is to become a reality.

ZAHN: What do you say to the folks out there who are saying now wait a minute, North Korea started this brinkmanship back in October. All they wanted to do was wrest economic aid from us and, if, in fact, you went through with this Russian deal, you'd be giving in to nuclear blackmail?

PONEMAN: Well, I think there are some things that have not been made clear that I think would be critical, Paula, to avoid having it get to that point. In other words, if you simply went back to the original deal that we negotiated in 1994 and returned to giving North Korea more benefits just for complying with that deal, I think that, in fact, you would be giving in to blackmail and I would oppose that.

However, if we use this opening as an opportunity to broaden the deal, to get things that we didn't get before, to get inspectors on the ground throughout the country, to get genuine challenge inspections, to get the 8,000 spent fuel rods now sitting there with five bombs worth of plutonium out, I think that would be very much worth having.

ZAHN: What do you think of how the administration is playing this right now? A bunch of criticism in the papers today that they'/re dragging the process out too long for any direct engagement between the U.S. and North Korea, and yet we know John Bolton is due in Seoul to take part in some of these negotiations from Seoul.

PONEMAN: I think some of the recent signs, in fact, have been encouraging. I do believe that it's appropriate to return this issue to the U.N. Security Council. I do believe that will begin to start to put the kind of pressure on North Korea that ultimately will persuade them to come to the table. And I think that has actually moved U.S. policy in the right direction. The other thing we need to do, and I saw our ambassador in Seoul has made reference to this, is to get involved in a leadership role ourselves.

I think with those two additional elements, Paula, plus some of these pieces on the table that the Russians have put just in the last couple of days, we might be on the road to a better outcome.

ZAHN: So you think Kim Jong Il would accept this Russian plan if it really does, in fact, come to pass?

PONEMAN: I'm not actually that interested if he would accept this deal, because, as I said, I think this deal doesn't go quite far enough. The fact, however, that he himself received this Russian diplomat indicates a level of seriousness on their side that perhaps we can exploit to our advantage in taking it to the next step.

ZAHN: Well, help us -- thank you for helping us cut through a very complicated story here this morning.

PONEMAN: Thank you.

ZAHN: Daniel Poneman, always good of you to drop by.

PONEMAN: A pleasure.

ZAHN: Appreciate it. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 21, 2003 - 08:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to turn our attention now to North Korea and the latest diplomatic efforts to end the nuclear stand-off. Russia's foreign minister presented a plan to resolve the conflict during meetings with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il and cabinet level talks between North and South Korea are taking place in Seoul.
Daniel Poneman, a former national security official, helped negotiate the 1994 nuclear agreement with North Korea.

He joins us now from Washington.

Welcome back.

Good to see you.

DANIEL PONEMAN, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY OFFICIAL: Good morning.

ZAHN: I wanted to put up on the screen some of the components of this Russian plan so we can get your insights into what's being offered here.

Is any of this stuff going to work?

PONEMAN: I think it's an interesting ploy and I'm hopeful that there may be some promise in it. The specific elements that the Russians are reported to have offered, the North-South denuclearization, the return to compliance with North Korea's earlier commitments, the assurances of no attack from the United States and the possibility of other assistance to North Korea are very much the kinds of things that I think could provide a promising route to a deal.

ZAHN: You used an interesting phrase. You just called it an interesting ploy. What should we read into that, that this isn't a legitimate offer?

PONEMAN: I don't think it's legitimate or illegitimate per se. I think the critical point now is you have had one foray into this field. The Russians clearly have been consulting with the U.S. and I think to convert it from a ploy or a diplomatic gambit into something more meaningful will require much further diplomacy. Perhaps you'll have some between the North and the South in their ministerial talks today, and ultimately obviously the U.S. itself would have to step into a role here if this is to become a reality.

ZAHN: What do you say to the folks out there who are saying now wait a minute, North Korea started this brinkmanship back in October. All they wanted to do was wrest economic aid from us and, if, in fact, you went through with this Russian deal, you'd be giving in to nuclear blackmail?

PONEMAN: Well, I think there are some things that have not been made clear that I think would be critical, Paula, to avoid having it get to that point. In other words, if you simply went back to the original deal that we negotiated in 1994 and returned to giving North Korea more benefits just for complying with that deal, I think that, in fact, you would be giving in to blackmail and I would oppose that.

However, if we use this opening as an opportunity to broaden the deal, to get things that we didn't get before, to get inspectors on the ground throughout the country, to get genuine challenge inspections, to get the 8,000 spent fuel rods now sitting there with five bombs worth of plutonium out, I think that would be very much worth having.

ZAHN: What do you think of how the administration is playing this right now? A bunch of criticism in the papers today that they'/re dragging the process out too long for any direct engagement between the U.S. and North Korea, and yet we know John Bolton is due in Seoul to take part in some of these negotiations from Seoul.

PONEMAN: I think some of the recent signs, in fact, have been encouraging. I do believe that it's appropriate to return this issue to the U.N. Security Council. I do believe that will begin to start to put the kind of pressure on North Korea that ultimately will persuade them to come to the table. And I think that has actually moved U.S. policy in the right direction. The other thing we need to do, and I saw our ambassador in Seoul has made reference to this, is to get involved in a leadership role ourselves.

I think with those two additional elements, Paula, plus some of these pieces on the table that the Russians have put just in the last couple of days, we might be on the road to a better outcome.

ZAHN: So you think Kim Jong Il would accept this Russian plan if it really does, in fact, come to pass?

PONEMAN: I'm not actually that interested if he would accept this deal, because, as I said, I think this deal doesn't go quite far enough. The fact, however, that he himself received this Russian diplomat indicates a level of seriousness on their side that perhaps we can exploit to our advantage in taking it to the next step.

ZAHN: Well, help us -- thank you for helping us cut through a very complicated story here this morning.

PONEMAN: Thank you.

ZAHN: Daniel Poneman, always good of you to drop by.

PONEMAN: A pleasure.

ZAHN: Appreciate it. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com