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American Morning

Should Inspections Continue?

Aired January 27, 2003 - 07:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As we've been mentioning all morning long, the Bush administration insists that Saddam Hussein's time is running out and that military force may be the only way to deal with him. But in the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 35 percent of Americans said inspectors should get as much time as they need to complete their work, 20 percent said they should get more time, but a with deadline set, and 41 percent say they should be given no more time.
Joining us now from Washington to talk more about whether inspections should continue, Democratic consultant Victor Kamber and Jonah Goldberg, syndicated columnist for the "National Review."

Welcome back, gentlemen.

Good to see both of you.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Thanks.

JONAH GOLDBERG, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: All right, Victor, for starters, let's talk about what Richard Roth was reporting from the U.N., some of this we knew about last week, but Hans Blix apparently going to say today that there are undeclared chemical warheads, a blocked U2 surveillance over flight and illegally imported missile parts.

Why do you think two or three more weeks of inspection will change the picture here?

KAMBER: Well, for the same reason that he's going to report that he needs more time and that the U.N. needs more time. We need to build our support with our allies and with this country. You till now, in my view, the president has not given a justification for going to war with Saddam Hussein. He had indicated that the key was weapons of mass destruction. He claims he's an evil, axis of evil. We know he's an evil party. We know that there's 10 evil despots out there.

You just don't put American lives at risk for oil or to get reelected. You put American lives at risk when you believe there's a real threat to the American way of life. And right now he hasn't justified that.

ZAHN: All right, Jonah, so basically Mr. Kamber is saying the burden of proof is on the U.S., not the Iraqis.

GOLDBERG: Right. Well, I know. And he's also saying that, he's also implying that the president is doing this for oil and to get reelected, which also has absolutely no proof, either. Regardless, the problem with inspectors is that they want to inspect. That is what they do. They are hound dogs and they want to keep sniffing for as long as they're allowed to. So of course they want more time.

The problem is, is, look, if they find something -- and we know that there is stuff out there -- if they find something, just like they did with these empty missile shells, they'll simply say, as Ted Kennedy did, well, the inspectors are -- this is a sign the inspectors are doing their work and they're succeeding and they should do it more.

And in that sense the argument for more inspections and more time for inspections that comes out of France and other quarters is essentially an argument for saying there shouldn't be a war at all, because there's a window of opportunity militarily and diplomatically that basically only gives us about five more weeks where we can successfully do this in the desert.

KAMBER: We are talking about American lives and frankly if it takes three more days or three more weeks to save American lives, we should take that opportunity. It's not just France. When Germany, when Canada, when our normal allies, people that we count on, are questioning our position, saying to the world wait, we should wait.

GOLDBERG: Well, Victor, the problem with that is, first of all, Germany already said several months ago that no matter what, even if there is a U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing force, they'll have nothing to do with it. So their opinion really matters not at all.

Canada doesn't have much of a functioning military anymore.

But if we're arguing about two more weeks or one more week and that's diplomatically sellable or politically sellable, I have really no huge problem with it.

KAMBER: Jonah, when that...

GOLDBERG: But the problem with it, the problem with that argument is that basically it is giving a mouse a piece of cheese and the mouse is always going to want more cheese...

KAMBER: We're...

GOLDBERG: In two weeks, if we gave them two weeks, Victor would be here saying two more weeks...

KAMBER: I'm saying...

GOLDBERG: ... until it's impossible to go to war.

KAMBER: I'm saying I want proof. We're talking, again, about American lives. This is not a checker game where we're just going to sit and play. It's, this is lives at stake. I'm old enough to remember Vietnam and the devastation it caused in this country, not just of lost lives, of divisions, of just the acrimony that happened in this country over Vietnam. We need to justify to the American public. You're telling us, Paula, I didn't know the numbers, it's 60 percent against right now going to war today. You've got to bring the American public along with you if you're going to take lives at risk, if you're going to go to war. You've got to bring the world opinion with you.

This is not George Bush's position just to say gee, we're going to war. I don't like Saddam Hussein. He's a bad guy.

GOLDBERG: OK, well, obviously he hasn't been doing that. Tom Daschle suggested using force in 1998. Bill Clinton suggested using force in 1998.

KAMBER: And we didn't.

GOLDBERG: And you didn't for a number of reasons.

KAMBER: Correct.

GOLDBERG: But the arguments there were just as necessary and useful then as they are now, which was that we knew Saddam Hussein was hiding stuff in 1998. We've had four years with no inspections, no evidence that he's done anything to get rid of the weapons that were found in 1998...

KAMBER: And we can't find them today, Jonah.

GOLDBERG: Well, and then so -- he's playing keep away and just because he's playing keep away doesn't mean that he doesn't have it. And no one in the intelligence community, even France has conceded that they said those weapons programs have been blocked or frozen. They conceded that he has these weapons programs.

KAMBER: We have not found a single weapon of mass destruction as been touted in terms.

GOLDBERG: And...

KAMBER: We know that North Korea has them and all we're doing is talking diplomatically to North Korea.

GOLDBERG: Right. And we want to keep Iraq from becoming North Korea and having nuclear weapons and being able to use them.

KAMBER: So let's go to war with Iraq and let North Korea get away with it.

GOLDBERG: Well, look, Victor...

KAMBER: That's, I mean, just crazy diplomacy.

GOLDBERG: You were a supporter of the 1441 resolution, I assume, and the 1441 resolution in the United States, in the United Nations, put the burden of proof on Iraq, not on the United States. At the same time, I love these people who are against going to war who cite these poll numbers as -- you know, and when the poll numbers are against them, the general argument is, well, there's this blood lust, there's this war fever in the air and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When the poll numbers are on their side, all of a sudden the people are so wise.

The State of the Union message, I guarantee you, will move those poll numbers. And I wonder then if the American people are then in favor of the use of force, whether all of a sudden these anti-war people will stop...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: All right, gentlemen, I'm going to have to cut you off and invite you to come back on another day. This, clearly what you're saying today, reflects a lot of what we're reading in the public opinion polls.

Victor Kamber, Jonah Goldberg, thank you for, both of you, for joining us today.

GOLDBERG: Thank you.

KAMBER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 27, 2003 - 07:34   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As we've been mentioning all morning long, the Bush administration insists that Saddam Hussein's time is running out and that military force may be the only way to deal with him. But in the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 35 percent of Americans said inspectors should get as much time as they need to complete their work, 20 percent said they should get more time, but a with deadline set, and 41 percent say they should be given no more time.
Joining us now from Washington to talk more about whether inspections should continue, Democratic consultant Victor Kamber and Jonah Goldberg, syndicated columnist for the "National Review."

Welcome back, gentlemen.

Good to see both of you.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Thanks.

JONAH GOLDBERG, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: All right, Victor, for starters, let's talk about what Richard Roth was reporting from the U.N., some of this we knew about last week, but Hans Blix apparently going to say today that there are undeclared chemical warheads, a blocked U2 surveillance over flight and illegally imported missile parts.

Why do you think two or three more weeks of inspection will change the picture here?

KAMBER: Well, for the same reason that he's going to report that he needs more time and that the U.N. needs more time. We need to build our support with our allies and with this country. You till now, in my view, the president has not given a justification for going to war with Saddam Hussein. He had indicated that the key was weapons of mass destruction. He claims he's an evil, axis of evil. We know he's an evil party. We know that there's 10 evil despots out there.

You just don't put American lives at risk for oil or to get reelected. You put American lives at risk when you believe there's a real threat to the American way of life. And right now he hasn't justified that.

ZAHN: All right, Jonah, so basically Mr. Kamber is saying the burden of proof is on the U.S., not the Iraqis.

GOLDBERG: Right. Well, I know. And he's also saying that, he's also implying that the president is doing this for oil and to get reelected, which also has absolutely no proof, either. Regardless, the problem with inspectors is that they want to inspect. That is what they do. They are hound dogs and they want to keep sniffing for as long as they're allowed to. So of course they want more time.

The problem is, is, look, if they find something -- and we know that there is stuff out there -- if they find something, just like they did with these empty missile shells, they'll simply say, as Ted Kennedy did, well, the inspectors are -- this is a sign the inspectors are doing their work and they're succeeding and they should do it more.

And in that sense the argument for more inspections and more time for inspections that comes out of France and other quarters is essentially an argument for saying there shouldn't be a war at all, because there's a window of opportunity militarily and diplomatically that basically only gives us about five more weeks where we can successfully do this in the desert.

KAMBER: We are talking about American lives and frankly if it takes three more days or three more weeks to save American lives, we should take that opportunity. It's not just France. When Germany, when Canada, when our normal allies, people that we count on, are questioning our position, saying to the world wait, we should wait.

GOLDBERG: Well, Victor, the problem with that is, first of all, Germany already said several months ago that no matter what, even if there is a U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing force, they'll have nothing to do with it. So their opinion really matters not at all.

Canada doesn't have much of a functioning military anymore.

But if we're arguing about two more weeks or one more week and that's diplomatically sellable or politically sellable, I have really no huge problem with it.

KAMBER: Jonah, when that...

GOLDBERG: But the problem with it, the problem with that argument is that basically it is giving a mouse a piece of cheese and the mouse is always going to want more cheese...

KAMBER: We're...

GOLDBERG: In two weeks, if we gave them two weeks, Victor would be here saying two more weeks...

KAMBER: I'm saying...

GOLDBERG: ... until it's impossible to go to war.

KAMBER: I'm saying I want proof. We're talking, again, about American lives. This is not a checker game where we're just going to sit and play. It's, this is lives at stake. I'm old enough to remember Vietnam and the devastation it caused in this country, not just of lost lives, of divisions, of just the acrimony that happened in this country over Vietnam. We need to justify to the American public. You're telling us, Paula, I didn't know the numbers, it's 60 percent against right now going to war today. You've got to bring the American public along with you if you're going to take lives at risk, if you're going to go to war. You've got to bring the world opinion with you.

This is not George Bush's position just to say gee, we're going to war. I don't like Saddam Hussein. He's a bad guy.

GOLDBERG: OK, well, obviously he hasn't been doing that. Tom Daschle suggested using force in 1998. Bill Clinton suggested using force in 1998.

KAMBER: And we didn't.

GOLDBERG: And you didn't for a number of reasons.

KAMBER: Correct.

GOLDBERG: But the arguments there were just as necessary and useful then as they are now, which was that we knew Saddam Hussein was hiding stuff in 1998. We've had four years with no inspections, no evidence that he's done anything to get rid of the weapons that were found in 1998...

KAMBER: And we can't find them today, Jonah.

GOLDBERG: Well, and then so -- he's playing keep away and just because he's playing keep away doesn't mean that he doesn't have it. And no one in the intelligence community, even France has conceded that they said those weapons programs have been blocked or frozen. They conceded that he has these weapons programs.

KAMBER: We have not found a single weapon of mass destruction as been touted in terms.

GOLDBERG: And...

KAMBER: We know that North Korea has them and all we're doing is talking diplomatically to North Korea.

GOLDBERG: Right. And we want to keep Iraq from becoming North Korea and having nuclear weapons and being able to use them.

KAMBER: So let's go to war with Iraq and let North Korea get away with it.

GOLDBERG: Well, look, Victor...

KAMBER: That's, I mean, just crazy diplomacy.

GOLDBERG: You were a supporter of the 1441 resolution, I assume, and the 1441 resolution in the United States, in the United Nations, put the burden of proof on Iraq, not on the United States. At the same time, I love these people who are against going to war who cite these poll numbers as -- you know, and when the poll numbers are against them, the general argument is, well, there's this blood lust, there's this war fever in the air and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When the poll numbers are on their side, all of a sudden the people are so wise.

The State of the Union message, I guarantee you, will move those poll numbers. And I wonder then if the American people are then in favor of the use of force, whether all of a sudden these anti-war people will stop...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: All right, gentlemen, I'm going to have to cut you off and invite you to come back on another day. This, clearly what you're saying today, reflects a lot of what we're reading in the public opinion polls.

Victor Kamber, Jonah Goldberg, thank you for, both of you, for joining us today.

GOLDBERG: Thank you.

KAMBER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com