Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Discussion with Robert Baer
Aired January 30, 2003 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As the president hardens his stand against Saddam Hussein, war with Iraq sounds to many observers more like when than if. And the White House message is clear, it believes Iraq is connected to the people responsible for 9/11.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Saddam should tell the truth and tell the truth now. The more we wait, the more chance there is for this dictator with clear ties to terrorist groups, including al Qaeda, more time for him to pass a weapon, share a technology or use these weapons again.
ANDREW CARD, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We know that there are training manuals that have been produced with the assistance of Saddam Hussein and we know that he has worked to train some of the al Qaeda network in use of chemical and biological weapons. I think it's a troubling relationship.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Joining us now from Washington to talk more about that possible linkage between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein, Robert Baer, a former CIA case officer and the author of "See No Evil."
Good to see you again.
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Thanks for having me, Paula.
ZAHN: So, Robert, how convincing do you think the administration's case is that there is, indeed, a tie between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda?
BAER: Well, of course, we're going to have to wait until they present their evidence, and it's difficult to say at this point. But the problem is that almost every Arab country in the Gulf had some tie to al Qaeda in the past, whether it's Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, and these people wander back and forth.
What we're really going to need is a smoking gun against Saddam, that he funded one of these guys, one of the hijackers or the whole group. That's going to be very hard to prove. Intelligence is very elusive. It doesn't make sense to most people and it takes a lot of time to really bring these pieces together, you know, 10 to 15 years, even.
ZAHN: What have you heard that does make sense? There's been so much made of this al Qaeda leader, Abu Musaab Zarqawi, who had his leg amputated in Baghdad, who was injured in Afghanistan earlier. Is that compelling to you?
BAER: That's not compelling, but it's important. I mean Baghdad should answer the question how did this guy get in? It's a police state. You just don't wander into Iraq without having some identification, without people knowing who you are. So what was he doing there?
I would want that question answered.
ZAHN: Although, the "L.A. Times" is reporting this morning that the intelligence sources are saying this information is highly circumstantial, saying there's no evidence that his ties to Baghdad extended beyond just needing medical care.
BAER: It is circumstantial. I mean a lot of this stuff is. And this is what, this is the problem Powell is going to have when he goes before the United Nations is making sense of this to the skeptics. And I think he's, it's going to be an uphill battle.
ZAHN: I'd like to read for you, to you some of what our representative said yesterday after coming out of a White House briefing. Caroline Maloney, who represents a district in New York, said, "The briefing was more factual and had more substance to it and more concrete evidence of linkage to al Qaeda."
This one's interesting from Representative Patrick Kennedy in the "Daily News" this morning. He came out saying that when Powell outlines the Saddam-al Qaeda connection next week, "There's going to be a lot of meat to those bones."
BAER: Well, you know...
ZAHN: Have you been privy to any of that information?
BAER: No, I haven't. But I think that's important. I mean I don't want to see the secretary of state stand before the world and not have good information, especially if we're going to go to war. So these connections should be very clear and I hope it works out that way.
ZAHN: Explain to us why it is so difficult to come to a consensus with any of this intelligence information.
BAER: Because these guys are professionals. They stay off the phone. They don't keep documents. Meetings aren't recorded. People from the inside don't defect, you know, witnesses, true witnesses. We haven't seen a single defection from al Qaeda since September 11. It's that kind of information that's very, very hard to get at that would definitively make the case.
ZAHN: Are you concerned that this issue might just be used to, for a political argument?
BAER: It's not so much that I'm concerned, it's the rest of the world will be. The Arabs are skeptical already, and these are the people we want to convince that there's a definite tie and we have a reason for invading Iraq.
ZAHN: I guess we'll all learn a whole lot more next week when Secretary of State Powell addresses the U.N. and a bunch of different meetings.
Thank you, Robert Baer, for joining us this morning.
BAER: Thanks.
ZAHN: Always good to see you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 30, 2003 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As the president hardens his stand against Saddam Hussein, war with Iraq sounds to many observers more like when than if. And the White House message is clear, it believes Iraq is connected to the people responsible for 9/11.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Saddam should tell the truth and tell the truth now. The more we wait, the more chance there is for this dictator with clear ties to terrorist groups, including al Qaeda, more time for him to pass a weapon, share a technology or use these weapons again.
ANDREW CARD, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We know that there are training manuals that have been produced with the assistance of Saddam Hussein and we know that he has worked to train some of the al Qaeda network in use of chemical and biological weapons. I think it's a troubling relationship.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Joining us now from Washington to talk more about that possible linkage between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein, Robert Baer, a former CIA case officer and the author of "See No Evil."
Good to see you again.
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Thanks for having me, Paula.
ZAHN: So, Robert, how convincing do you think the administration's case is that there is, indeed, a tie between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda?
BAER: Well, of course, we're going to have to wait until they present their evidence, and it's difficult to say at this point. But the problem is that almost every Arab country in the Gulf had some tie to al Qaeda in the past, whether it's Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, and these people wander back and forth.
What we're really going to need is a smoking gun against Saddam, that he funded one of these guys, one of the hijackers or the whole group. That's going to be very hard to prove. Intelligence is very elusive. It doesn't make sense to most people and it takes a lot of time to really bring these pieces together, you know, 10 to 15 years, even.
ZAHN: What have you heard that does make sense? There's been so much made of this al Qaeda leader, Abu Musaab Zarqawi, who had his leg amputated in Baghdad, who was injured in Afghanistan earlier. Is that compelling to you?
BAER: That's not compelling, but it's important. I mean Baghdad should answer the question how did this guy get in? It's a police state. You just don't wander into Iraq without having some identification, without people knowing who you are. So what was he doing there?
I would want that question answered.
ZAHN: Although, the "L.A. Times" is reporting this morning that the intelligence sources are saying this information is highly circumstantial, saying there's no evidence that his ties to Baghdad extended beyond just needing medical care.
BAER: It is circumstantial. I mean a lot of this stuff is. And this is what, this is the problem Powell is going to have when he goes before the United Nations is making sense of this to the skeptics. And I think he's, it's going to be an uphill battle.
ZAHN: I'd like to read for you, to you some of what our representative said yesterday after coming out of a White House briefing. Caroline Maloney, who represents a district in New York, said, "The briefing was more factual and had more substance to it and more concrete evidence of linkage to al Qaeda."
This one's interesting from Representative Patrick Kennedy in the "Daily News" this morning. He came out saying that when Powell outlines the Saddam-al Qaeda connection next week, "There's going to be a lot of meat to those bones."
BAER: Well, you know...
ZAHN: Have you been privy to any of that information?
BAER: No, I haven't. But I think that's important. I mean I don't want to see the secretary of state stand before the world and not have good information, especially if we're going to go to war. So these connections should be very clear and I hope it works out that way.
ZAHN: Explain to us why it is so difficult to come to a consensus with any of this intelligence information.
BAER: Because these guys are professionals. They stay off the phone. They don't keep documents. Meetings aren't recorded. People from the inside don't defect, you know, witnesses, true witnesses. We haven't seen a single defection from al Qaeda since September 11. It's that kind of information that's very, very hard to get at that would definitively make the case.
ZAHN: Are you concerned that this issue might just be used to, for a political argument?
BAER: It's not so much that I'm concerned, it's the rest of the world will be. The Arabs are skeptical already, and these are the people we want to convince that there's a definite tie and we have a reason for invading Iraq.
ZAHN: I guess we'll all learn a whole lot more next week when Secretary of State Powell addresses the U.N. and a bunch of different meetings.
Thank you, Robert Baer, for joining us this morning.
BAER: Thanks.
ZAHN: Always good to see you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
