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American Morning

Interview with Sen. Richard Lugar

Aired January 31, 2003 - 07:09   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, the president continues to put pressure on Saddam Hussein and America's allies on notice. He won't wait long before turning to military options against Iraq. The White House says it has a mountain of evidence, but administration officials yesterday faced some very tough questions from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about just what kind of proof they have.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ARMITAGE, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: The sharing of the information is something that, of course, you have every right to demand. And I've just suggested might be the intelligence officers or the intelligence committee who might better provide that. Secretary Powell's going to put it in context to support the comments that Mohamed ElBaradei made.

SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: But I don't care how it gets done. I don't care how it gets done. I'm just tired of having to hear sort of these speeches being given about this. And I'm one who supported this resolution. I'm not your opponent. But my people want to know why we're going to do this, other than sort of speeches given that are sort of pep rally stuff. I want to know specifically and factually what we know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Well, Senator Richard Lugar is Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. He was there as well yesterday. He joins us now from Washington.

Welcome back, sir, good to have you with us.

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN), CHAIRMAN, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Good morning -- Paula.

ZAHN: Did Mr. Armitage lead you to believe that the evidence that Secretary of State Powell will present to the U.N. is not just circumstance -- circumstantial but hard core proof that the Iraqis are in the WMD business?

LUGAR: Well he led us to believe that the Secretary will provide a lot of information; however, it will be in the eye of the beholder as to whether it's proof or not. The facts, at least, that were presented by Secretary Armitage are that clearly Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. The U.N. documented this four years ago in its last report. They have not given any indication whatever happened to it. The inspectors were there really to see either documents that it had been destroyed or to witness the destruction. Neither has occurred. And as you've already reported this morning, Hans Blix, Mr. ElBaradei are dissatisfied. They really want some activity and there's not been any since the report on Monday.

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, there are a number of published reports suggesting that some of what Mr. Powell will present next week has come from information gleaned from detainees in Guantanamo Bay and that some intelligence officers are disputing the conclusions drawn from that information. How treacherous of a journey will this be for Secretary Powell? How easily will it be for him to get boxed into a corner here?

LUGAR: Well, Secretary of Powell is very adept and he will not be boxed into a corner. But as I would indicate again, various people taking a look at the evidence he will produce will decide it is more or less convincing as they wish. That the overwhelming problem is that it is very difficult to detect biological laboratories that can be broken down, put in a van and carted down a road a hundred mile. If you were not there in the last 15 minutes, you're unlikely to know what's there. Ditto for much of the chemical warfare, whether it be materials or weapon, easily hidden, easily transported, easily dispensed with. This is a needle in a haystack business.

Now maybe Secretary Powell has some evidence that breaks through all this cloud, I hope so. And as a matter of fact, in our Foreign Relations Committee meeting yesterday, we broached the suggestion it might be wise for the Secretary, or for others, to visit with us, that is the Foreign Relations Committee, or other senators prior to his appearance so that at least we all have a pretty good idea of what it's about. We can all at least be discussing it in a relevant way next Wednesday.

ZAHN: You say you're hopeful that this information provided will somehow break through the cloud. If it doesn't, what will be the implications for the administration?

LUGAR: Well the implications are the same as they are this morning before the evidence is given and that is that Saddam Hussein, according to U.N. documentation, possesses large amounts of chemical weapons and rocketry and anthrax and a lot of other things. They are there. Now the fact is U.N. documented.

The whole purpose of the U.N. resolution that was passed last month was to say this is the last chance to show either you've destroyed it or to give it to the international community for destruction to be observed. He has done neither. He's really stiffed the world on both objectives and really believes at this moment he's going to get away with it. The world will weary of the whole process, that indeed weeks and months will go by but the inspectors will have no more chance weeks or months from now without a definite change in Iraqi cooperation, namely fulfillment with the demands of the U.N. in all of these resolutions, including the last chance one.

ZAHN: Got 10 seconds left, sir. Do you believe, based on what you heard yesterday, there is a firm al Qaeda-Saddam Hussein link to be drawn here? LUGAR: Well, I would only say I know al Qaeda has been in Iraq. And in trying to make the link with Saddam is something at least beyond my competence at this point.

ZAHN: All right, thanks for being honest.

LUGAR: Thank you.

ZAHN: Senator Richard Lugar, always appreciate your dropping by AMERICAN MORNING.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 31, 2003 - 07:09   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, the president continues to put pressure on Saddam Hussein and America's allies on notice. He won't wait long before turning to military options against Iraq. The White House says it has a mountain of evidence, but administration officials yesterday faced some very tough questions from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about just what kind of proof they have.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ARMITAGE, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: The sharing of the information is something that, of course, you have every right to demand. And I've just suggested might be the intelligence officers or the intelligence committee who might better provide that. Secretary Powell's going to put it in context to support the comments that Mohamed ElBaradei made.

SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: But I don't care how it gets done. I don't care how it gets done. I'm just tired of having to hear sort of these speeches being given about this. And I'm one who supported this resolution. I'm not your opponent. But my people want to know why we're going to do this, other than sort of speeches given that are sort of pep rally stuff. I want to know specifically and factually what we know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Well, Senator Richard Lugar is Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. He was there as well yesterday. He joins us now from Washington.

Welcome back, sir, good to have you with us.

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN), CHAIRMAN, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Good morning -- Paula.

ZAHN: Did Mr. Armitage lead you to believe that the evidence that Secretary of State Powell will present to the U.N. is not just circumstance -- circumstantial but hard core proof that the Iraqis are in the WMD business?

LUGAR: Well he led us to believe that the Secretary will provide a lot of information; however, it will be in the eye of the beholder as to whether it's proof or not. The facts, at least, that were presented by Secretary Armitage are that clearly Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. The U.N. documented this four years ago in its last report. They have not given any indication whatever happened to it. The inspectors were there really to see either documents that it had been destroyed or to witness the destruction. Neither has occurred. And as you've already reported this morning, Hans Blix, Mr. ElBaradei are dissatisfied. They really want some activity and there's not been any since the report on Monday.

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, there are a number of published reports suggesting that some of what Mr. Powell will present next week has come from information gleaned from detainees in Guantanamo Bay and that some intelligence officers are disputing the conclusions drawn from that information. How treacherous of a journey will this be for Secretary Powell? How easily will it be for him to get boxed into a corner here?

LUGAR: Well, Secretary of Powell is very adept and he will not be boxed into a corner. But as I would indicate again, various people taking a look at the evidence he will produce will decide it is more or less convincing as they wish. That the overwhelming problem is that it is very difficult to detect biological laboratories that can be broken down, put in a van and carted down a road a hundred mile. If you were not there in the last 15 minutes, you're unlikely to know what's there. Ditto for much of the chemical warfare, whether it be materials or weapon, easily hidden, easily transported, easily dispensed with. This is a needle in a haystack business.

Now maybe Secretary Powell has some evidence that breaks through all this cloud, I hope so. And as a matter of fact, in our Foreign Relations Committee meeting yesterday, we broached the suggestion it might be wise for the Secretary, or for others, to visit with us, that is the Foreign Relations Committee, or other senators prior to his appearance so that at least we all have a pretty good idea of what it's about. We can all at least be discussing it in a relevant way next Wednesday.

ZAHN: You say you're hopeful that this information provided will somehow break through the cloud. If it doesn't, what will be the implications for the administration?

LUGAR: Well the implications are the same as they are this morning before the evidence is given and that is that Saddam Hussein, according to U.N. documentation, possesses large amounts of chemical weapons and rocketry and anthrax and a lot of other things. They are there. Now the fact is U.N. documented.

The whole purpose of the U.N. resolution that was passed last month was to say this is the last chance to show either you've destroyed it or to give it to the international community for destruction to be observed. He has done neither. He's really stiffed the world on both objectives and really believes at this moment he's going to get away with it. The world will weary of the whole process, that indeed weeks and months will go by but the inspectors will have no more chance weeks or months from now without a definite change in Iraqi cooperation, namely fulfillment with the demands of the U.N. in all of these resolutions, including the last chance one.

ZAHN: Got 10 seconds left, sir. Do you believe, based on what you heard yesterday, there is a firm al Qaeda-Saddam Hussein link to be drawn here? LUGAR: Well, I would only say I know al Qaeda has been in Iraq. And in trying to make the link with Saddam is something at least beyond my competence at this point.

ZAHN: All right, thanks for being honest.

LUGAR: Thank you.

ZAHN: Senator Richard Lugar, always appreciate your dropping by AMERICAN MORNING.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com