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American Morning
Crew Heading to East Texas to Excavate Shuttle Columbia's Nose Cone
Aired February 04, 2003 - 08:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: A crew is heading to East Texas today to excavate the Shuttle Columbia's nose cone. I guess in some places it was buried 20 feet into the ground. Now, the piece is a key find for investigators as they try to figure out what caused the disaster.
Rusty Dornin joins us now from the Johnson Space Center in Houston with the very latest on the investigation -- good morning, Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, you know, finding that nose cone is, of course, another bit and piece of the puzzle. But it could be key in possibly figuring out the sequence of the break-up. Of course, they won't know until they have examined it. Meantime they are, the main theory right now is that a mishap did occur some time during lift-off.
Now, the interesting thing is they did take a look at the film after, a day after the lift-off. The NASA engineers studied it for at least a week, studied the data, studied the films and came back and said there was no threat to the crew or to the safety of the vehicle.
They are, of course, reanalyzing all of that data and all of the films and now they say they believe the external tank could be the problem and that is "drastic and sobering" because it could mean a design flaw in the space shuttle itself.
Meantime, we are hearing more about the preceding minutes before the breakup of the shuttle, that there were, again, temperature increases in the wheel well. Those temperature increases were not drastic, but they were enough that NASA says they're telling us something. We just don't know exactly what that something is. And, again, there will be no press briefing on the investigation today, as the memorial will take place at 1:00 Eastern. Of course, families of the astronauts will be here, as well as President Bush and the first lady -- Paula.
ZAHN: Rusty Dornin, thank you so much.
As we have been reporting this morning, NASA investigators are focusing in on a piece of foam that broke loose from a fuel tank during lift-off and struck the orbiter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON DITTEMORE, SPACE SHUTTLE PROGRAM MANAGER: We're making the assumption from the start that the external tank was the root cause of the problem that lost Columbia. That's our starting point when we look at the tank.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So was Columbia's mission doomed from the start?
Joining us now from the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Dr. Norm Thagard, a former astronaut himself, now a CNN analyst.
Doctor, good to see you.
Thanks for joining us this morning.
DR. NORM THAGARD, FORMER ASTRONAUT: My pleasure, Paula.
ZAHN: It was so chilling to hear Ron Dittemore talk about the possibility that in the end that it could, in fact, have been the foam hitting the left side of the orbiter that caused this horrible escalation of events. And he said that that assumption is drastic and sobering because it could imply a fundamental flaw in the design of the Challengers.
How concerned are you about that possibility?
THAGARD: We have known that this foam material comes off of the tanks. I certainly saw it on three of my five flights, the one on which I rode up on the flight deck. But it never caused any damage before, at least not any significant damage. It might streak the wind screen. But the thought was that despite the fact that this stuff comes off, it really doesn't pose a major hazard to the shuttle.
ZAHN: But if they determine that there was some structural problem created by this, would that mean that you'd have to redesign the whole shuttle system or just scarp it altogether?
THAGARD: Well, right now they're concentrating on the external tank because I think the thought is if this is a problem with things coming off the external tank, if you can find out what's happening, you might be able to make a correction. That correction could be a simple one or it might be a major redesign.
ZAHN: Let's talk a little bit about what the engineers had to deal with 11 days into the mission when they reanalyzed some of this information they had gotten about lift-off. And a few days before the Columbia was scheduled to land an internal memo from NASA noted that the debris that fell off the fuel tank should have "no mission impact."
Now that it's being looked at as a possible cause of the tragedy, how much second guessing is going to go on and do you believe the NASA experts made a mistake?
THAGARD: I don't think they made a mistake and the reason I don't is because they went on their experience. We had over 100 shuttle flights. We knew this foam material came off. It never did any significant damage. I think any reasonable person in that situation would assume that this is not a major problem. Sure, I think you'd like not to have things coming off the tank, but if it's costly or it takes a while to affect a change and it's not doing anything, why bother with it?
ZAHN: Had the engineers discovered that this was, in fact, going to be a major problem upon reentry, was there any way out of this mission for the Columbia 7?
THAGARD: Once the Columbia got on orbit with a problem that we think may have occurred, and if it is, in fact, a loss of tiles due to debris, there was nothing to be done. It can't get to the international station. I doubt it was in the same orbit. It didn't have the energy. It can't stay up much longer. Ultimately, you've got to come home.
Now, you might do some redesign, if you really think you're going to lose the vehicle, of the entry and the attitudes. They talked about that yesterday. But most of the things you would have done, you would have had to assume that you're going to have a catastrophic failure and you're going to do something that's going to cost you this shuttle but maybe save the crew. But I don't think anyone thought that there was any major problem.
ZAHN: Norm, we're going to share with our audience now some amateur video that we got from one of our viewers in San Jose. And NASA's Ron Dittemore is now saying that the shuttle was breaking up over California. That's a very significant development. That's exactly what this bystander thought he saw.
If that's true, what does it mean?
THAGARD: It just tells you that this problem may well -- I think it leads you more in the direction of this was a problem that probably occurred in the launch phase and over California you're first getting into the sensible atmosphere. That's the time wnhen you can have enough aerodynamic forces on the vehicle to start peeling off tiles if they're damaged, for instance.
ZAHN: I wanted to close of our interview this morning with some thoughts you might have for the families that are gathering together a little bit later on in Houston. And I wanted to read a small part of a public statement they released yesterday where they said, "Although we grieve deeply, once the root cause of this tragedy is found and corrected, the legacy of Columbia must go on for the benefit of our children and yours."
Explain to us how much more difficult the mourning process must be as all of these very pointed questions are being asked about whether the safety of the crew was compromised by budget cuts at NASA.
THAGARD: It complicates it and it isn't only that the questions are being asked. It's also that the family has difficulty avoiding media, for instance. They get constant reminders of all of the questions and the things that went on. Most people don't have to go through that. So it really does add an unfortunate new dimension or different dimension to this sad process. ZAHN: And how tough will it be for you to go through it today?
THAGARD: It's not easy. It's stunning. I would have to say that since I didn't personally know the folks on this flight, it didn't have quite the same impact that Challenger had for me. In the Challenger accident, four of those folks actually were from my 1978 group of astronauts and a couple of them were good friends of mine.
Nonetheless, it's stunning. It's numbing. And you really do feel great sympathy for the families.
ZAHN: Our hearts go out to all of them.
Dr. Norm Thagard, thank you very much for being with us this morning.
And we want to remind you all to stay tuned to CNN for the memorial service that will be held today in Houston for the Columbia astronauts. Miles O'Brien, Judy Woodruff and Aaron Brown will anchor our live coverage, beginning at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Nose Cone>
Aired February 4, 2003 - 08:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: A crew is heading to East Texas today to excavate the Shuttle Columbia's nose cone. I guess in some places it was buried 20 feet into the ground. Now, the piece is a key find for investigators as they try to figure out what caused the disaster.
Rusty Dornin joins us now from the Johnson Space Center in Houston with the very latest on the investigation -- good morning, Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, you know, finding that nose cone is, of course, another bit and piece of the puzzle. But it could be key in possibly figuring out the sequence of the break-up. Of course, they won't know until they have examined it. Meantime they are, the main theory right now is that a mishap did occur some time during lift-off.
Now, the interesting thing is they did take a look at the film after, a day after the lift-off. The NASA engineers studied it for at least a week, studied the data, studied the films and came back and said there was no threat to the crew or to the safety of the vehicle.
They are, of course, reanalyzing all of that data and all of the films and now they say they believe the external tank could be the problem and that is "drastic and sobering" because it could mean a design flaw in the space shuttle itself.
Meantime, we are hearing more about the preceding minutes before the breakup of the shuttle, that there were, again, temperature increases in the wheel well. Those temperature increases were not drastic, but they were enough that NASA says they're telling us something. We just don't know exactly what that something is. And, again, there will be no press briefing on the investigation today, as the memorial will take place at 1:00 Eastern. Of course, families of the astronauts will be here, as well as President Bush and the first lady -- Paula.
ZAHN: Rusty Dornin, thank you so much.
As we have been reporting this morning, NASA investigators are focusing in on a piece of foam that broke loose from a fuel tank during lift-off and struck the orbiter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON DITTEMORE, SPACE SHUTTLE PROGRAM MANAGER: We're making the assumption from the start that the external tank was the root cause of the problem that lost Columbia. That's our starting point when we look at the tank.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So was Columbia's mission doomed from the start?
Joining us now from the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Dr. Norm Thagard, a former astronaut himself, now a CNN analyst.
Doctor, good to see you.
Thanks for joining us this morning.
DR. NORM THAGARD, FORMER ASTRONAUT: My pleasure, Paula.
ZAHN: It was so chilling to hear Ron Dittemore talk about the possibility that in the end that it could, in fact, have been the foam hitting the left side of the orbiter that caused this horrible escalation of events. And he said that that assumption is drastic and sobering because it could imply a fundamental flaw in the design of the Challengers.
How concerned are you about that possibility?
THAGARD: We have known that this foam material comes off of the tanks. I certainly saw it on three of my five flights, the one on which I rode up on the flight deck. But it never caused any damage before, at least not any significant damage. It might streak the wind screen. But the thought was that despite the fact that this stuff comes off, it really doesn't pose a major hazard to the shuttle.
ZAHN: But if they determine that there was some structural problem created by this, would that mean that you'd have to redesign the whole shuttle system or just scarp it altogether?
THAGARD: Well, right now they're concentrating on the external tank because I think the thought is if this is a problem with things coming off the external tank, if you can find out what's happening, you might be able to make a correction. That correction could be a simple one or it might be a major redesign.
ZAHN: Let's talk a little bit about what the engineers had to deal with 11 days into the mission when they reanalyzed some of this information they had gotten about lift-off. And a few days before the Columbia was scheduled to land an internal memo from NASA noted that the debris that fell off the fuel tank should have "no mission impact."
Now that it's being looked at as a possible cause of the tragedy, how much second guessing is going to go on and do you believe the NASA experts made a mistake?
THAGARD: I don't think they made a mistake and the reason I don't is because they went on their experience. We had over 100 shuttle flights. We knew this foam material came off. It never did any significant damage. I think any reasonable person in that situation would assume that this is not a major problem. Sure, I think you'd like not to have things coming off the tank, but if it's costly or it takes a while to affect a change and it's not doing anything, why bother with it?
ZAHN: Had the engineers discovered that this was, in fact, going to be a major problem upon reentry, was there any way out of this mission for the Columbia 7?
THAGARD: Once the Columbia got on orbit with a problem that we think may have occurred, and if it is, in fact, a loss of tiles due to debris, there was nothing to be done. It can't get to the international station. I doubt it was in the same orbit. It didn't have the energy. It can't stay up much longer. Ultimately, you've got to come home.
Now, you might do some redesign, if you really think you're going to lose the vehicle, of the entry and the attitudes. They talked about that yesterday. But most of the things you would have done, you would have had to assume that you're going to have a catastrophic failure and you're going to do something that's going to cost you this shuttle but maybe save the crew. But I don't think anyone thought that there was any major problem.
ZAHN: Norm, we're going to share with our audience now some amateur video that we got from one of our viewers in San Jose. And NASA's Ron Dittemore is now saying that the shuttle was breaking up over California. That's a very significant development. That's exactly what this bystander thought he saw.
If that's true, what does it mean?
THAGARD: It just tells you that this problem may well -- I think it leads you more in the direction of this was a problem that probably occurred in the launch phase and over California you're first getting into the sensible atmosphere. That's the time wnhen you can have enough aerodynamic forces on the vehicle to start peeling off tiles if they're damaged, for instance.
ZAHN: I wanted to close of our interview this morning with some thoughts you might have for the families that are gathering together a little bit later on in Houston. And I wanted to read a small part of a public statement they released yesterday where they said, "Although we grieve deeply, once the root cause of this tragedy is found and corrected, the legacy of Columbia must go on for the benefit of our children and yours."
Explain to us how much more difficult the mourning process must be as all of these very pointed questions are being asked about whether the safety of the crew was compromised by budget cuts at NASA.
THAGARD: It complicates it and it isn't only that the questions are being asked. It's also that the family has difficulty avoiding media, for instance. They get constant reminders of all of the questions and the things that went on. Most people don't have to go through that. So it really does add an unfortunate new dimension or different dimension to this sad process. ZAHN: And how tough will it be for you to go through it today?
THAGARD: It's not easy. It's stunning. I would have to say that since I didn't personally know the folks on this flight, it didn't have quite the same impact that Challenger had for me. In the Challenger accident, four of those folks actually were from my 1978 group of astronauts and a couple of them were good friends of mine.
Nonetheless, it's stunning. It's numbing. And you really do feel great sympathy for the families.
ZAHN: Our hearts go out to all of them.
Dr. Norm Thagard, thank you very much for being with us this morning.
And we want to remind you all to stay tuned to CNN for the memorial service that will be held today in Houston for the Columbia astronauts. Miles O'Brien, Judy Woodruff and Aaron Brown will anchor our live coverage, beginning at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Nose Cone>
