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American Morning
Tomorrow Colin Powell Will Present President's Case to Security Council
Aired February 04, 2003 - 07:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Moving on to the issue of Iraq and the important meeting that's going to take place at the U.N. tomorrow, there is no smoking gun. But the Bush administration claims there is a mountain of evidence that proves Iraq is defying the U.N. As we mentioned, tomorrow is the day that Colin Powell will present the president's case to the Security Council and, in effect, to the American people.
Now, in the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 60 percent say they consider Powell's U.N. presentation very important, 27 percent said it was somewhat important and just 12 percent thought it wasn't important.
So what's really at stake here for the U.S.?
Joining us now from Washington, Democratic consultant Victor Kamber and Cliff May, the former RNC communications director, now with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
Good morning, gentlemen.
Welcome.
VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning.
CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: We know that both of you, since you read, probably read the "Wall Street Journal" editorial yesterday that Secretary of State Powell wrote where he said the evidence he will be presenting will be absent a smoking gun. How important is that smoking gun, Victor Kamber, to convince the American people that going into Iraq militarily is the right thing to do?
KAMBER: Well, I have felt all along that the smoking gun is absolutely imperative. The president raised the stakes by saying that's what the case was. The U.N. raised the stakes. The fact that at the State of the Union the president didn't present a smoking gun and if it's, in fact, true that tomorrow Secretary of State Powell doesn't present evidence, true evidence -- we know Saddam Hussein is bad. Let's not start with that argument. We know he's an evil man. We know he's a horrible human being.
That's not reason enough to go to war. Preemptive...
ZAHN: But, Victor, don't you also know he has violated over a dozen U.S. resolutions?
KAMBER: Paula, I could name probably five countries that violate those resolutions. We're not going to war with them -- including North Korea, include Libya. I mean who are you kidding here? We're talking about war. We're talking about losing lives. We're talking...
MAY: But...
KAMBER: This is not a checker game or a chess game. This is war.
MAY: Let me -- yes, and the question is when we go to war, do we do it now or do we do it when Saddam Hussein has not only a smoking gun, perhaps, but several loaded guns. And that's the real point. By the time we have a smoking gun, you have victims. What we want is a loading gun.
Saddam Hussein agreed that he would give up his weapons of mass destruction. But it is on that...
KAMBER: And has to our knowledge.
MAY: No, no, no. That is...
KAMBER: There are not existing smoking guns.
MAY: Wait a minute. There is -- the weapons of mass destruction he had in 1998, we don't know where they are. The weapons inspectors went in there and said here's what you had in 1998 and it's your obligation, Saddam Hussein, to account for them. He has not done so. He has not disclosed, as he has agreed to do, going back more than 10 years. Victor, it's important to understand this problem.
There was a cease-fire signed with Saddam Hussein. The condition of that cease-fire was that he would disarm. He has not disarmed...
KAMBER: We don't...
MAY: ... as Hans Blix has said and as the French have acknowledged.
KAMBER: We do not know that, Cliff, and the fact...
MAY: We do know he hasn't disarmed.
KAMBER: ... the fact...
MAY: Hans Blix says...
KAMBER: The fact that the U.N....
MAY: No one disputes that.
KAMBER: The fact that the U.N. wants more time to find, we should be giving it. MAY: Wait a minute. First of all...
KAMBER: We have...
ZAHN: Wait, wait, wait, Cliff. Let Victor...
KAMBER: We should not be doing preemptive...
ZAHN: ... give him a chance for Victor to respond.
KAMBER: We should not be doing preemptive actions.
MAY: There's nothing...
KAMBER: This country has never done that in its history.
MAY: First of all...
KAMBER: What we've got is...
MAY: Victor...
KAMBER: What we've got is a man who I think in the presidency does not understand what he is out, what he is undertaking and frankly has made a commitment to go to war and therefore he's going to do it regardless of world opinion or U.S. opinion.
MAY: Victor, first of all, you -- first of all, it's not preemptive. We, the cease-fire is null and void because the conditions of the cease-fire haven't been met.
Second, even the French admit that Saddam Hussein still has weapons of mass destruction. What the French say is that those programs have been frozen, but they don't know that. Hans Blix says nothing has been disclosed. There are thousands of tons of weapons -- chemical, biological and others -- that he hasn't disclosed.
And as for public opinion, about 67 percent of the American public feels that using military force to disarm Saddam Hussein would be justified. That's according to "Newsweek," CNN, any poll you want. You know how to read polls.
KAMBER: And I have...
ZAHN: But isn't, but, Cliff, doesn't the second part of that question always suggest that it's along with U.N. approval or along with a significant number of allies?
MAY: Yes. A significant number of allies...
ZAHN: I mean when you asked that question and you asked should the U.S. go it alone...
MAY: Paula...
ZAHN: ... then the majority of Americans will say no. KAMBER: That's correct.
MAY: Paula, you're right. We have 23 allies right now. That's 22 more than we had on D-Day in WWII. Last week, eight nations of Europe signed a letter, sent it to the president, in which they said they were supporting. Most NATO members are supporting the president...
KAMBER: And what do we do...
MAY: Next week there will be another letter.
KAMBER: How many arms did we twist to get there?
MAY: This will not be unilateral.
ZAHN: OK, Victor, you get the last word.
KAMBER: How many arms did we twist?
Well, it's just, it's outrageous what we're doing. This is war. Let's stop war. Let's stop for a few minutes to find out what's really going on.
MAY: Victor...
KAMBER: Give the U.N. a chance to work.
MAY: Victor is urging a policy of inaction and appeasement that's never worked in the past and it won't work now.
ZAHN: Victor, you can take five more seconds.
KAMBER: I, well, I just find it, again, as I said earlier, this is war we're talking about, not a checker game.
MAY: We...
KAMBER: And a speech tomorrow, he's got to give, Powell has to give the speech to convince the U.N. to join with the U.S....
MAY: Very...
KAMBER: And to convince the U.S. to support the president.
MAY: Very quickly, Paula, I hope Powell gives a good and persuasive speech. I think he will. At the same time, I don't want one American life lost or one Iraqi life lost because we have revealed sources and methods of how we get intelligence...
KAMBER: Oh, let's not start the secret...
MAY: ... or because weapons of mass destruction are moved.
KAMBER: Let's not start the secret stuff that cost us Vietnam that we don't -- information we can't give. MAY: This is...
KAMBER: If the world is not, if other countries of the world aren't ready for the information, secret information we have, we should not be at war.
MAY: This is...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: OK, time out, gentlemen.
MAY: Victor is still fighting Vietnam.
KAMBER: Italy, Spain, Britain.
ZAHN: I've got to move on to our next segment.
MAY: Thanks, Paula.
ZAHN: It's a good thing I had you physically separated this morning, isn't it?
MAY: We're going to fight it out afterward.
ZAHN: Victor Kamber, Cliff May.
I know. You always do.
Thank you, both of you, for joining us this morning.
KAMBER: Thank you.
MAY: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Security Council>
Aired February 4, 2003 - 07:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Moving on to the issue of Iraq and the important meeting that's going to take place at the U.N. tomorrow, there is no smoking gun. But the Bush administration claims there is a mountain of evidence that proves Iraq is defying the U.N. As we mentioned, tomorrow is the day that Colin Powell will present the president's case to the Security Council and, in effect, to the American people.
Now, in the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 60 percent say they consider Powell's U.N. presentation very important, 27 percent said it was somewhat important and just 12 percent thought it wasn't important.
So what's really at stake here for the U.S.?
Joining us now from Washington, Democratic consultant Victor Kamber and Cliff May, the former RNC communications director, now with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
Good morning, gentlemen.
Welcome.
VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning.
CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: We know that both of you, since you read, probably read the "Wall Street Journal" editorial yesterday that Secretary of State Powell wrote where he said the evidence he will be presenting will be absent a smoking gun. How important is that smoking gun, Victor Kamber, to convince the American people that going into Iraq militarily is the right thing to do?
KAMBER: Well, I have felt all along that the smoking gun is absolutely imperative. The president raised the stakes by saying that's what the case was. The U.N. raised the stakes. The fact that at the State of the Union the president didn't present a smoking gun and if it's, in fact, true that tomorrow Secretary of State Powell doesn't present evidence, true evidence -- we know Saddam Hussein is bad. Let's not start with that argument. We know he's an evil man. We know he's a horrible human being.
That's not reason enough to go to war. Preemptive...
ZAHN: But, Victor, don't you also know he has violated over a dozen U.S. resolutions?
KAMBER: Paula, I could name probably five countries that violate those resolutions. We're not going to war with them -- including North Korea, include Libya. I mean who are you kidding here? We're talking about war. We're talking about losing lives. We're talking...
MAY: But...
KAMBER: This is not a checker game or a chess game. This is war.
MAY: Let me -- yes, and the question is when we go to war, do we do it now or do we do it when Saddam Hussein has not only a smoking gun, perhaps, but several loaded guns. And that's the real point. By the time we have a smoking gun, you have victims. What we want is a loading gun.
Saddam Hussein agreed that he would give up his weapons of mass destruction. But it is on that...
KAMBER: And has to our knowledge.
MAY: No, no, no. That is...
KAMBER: There are not existing smoking guns.
MAY: Wait a minute. There is -- the weapons of mass destruction he had in 1998, we don't know where they are. The weapons inspectors went in there and said here's what you had in 1998 and it's your obligation, Saddam Hussein, to account for them. He has not done so. He has not disclosed, as he has agreed to do, going back more than 10 years. Victor, it's important to understand this problem.
There was a cease-fire signed with Saddam Hussein. The condition of that cease-fire was that he would disarm. He has not disarmed...
KAMBER: We don't...
MAY: ... as Hans Blix has said and as the French have acknowledged.
KAMBER: We do not know that, Cliff, and the fact...
MAY: We do know he hasn't disarmed.
KAMBER: ... the fact...
MAY: Hans Blix says...
KAMBER: The fact that the U.N....
MAY: No one disputes that.
KAMBER: The fact that the U.N. wants more time to find, we should be giving it. MAY: Wait a minute. First of all...
KAMBER: We have...
ZAHN: Wait, wait, wait, Cliff. Let Victor...
KAMBER: We should not be doing preemptive...
ZAHN: ... give him a chance for Victor to respond.
KAMBER: We should not be doing preemptive actions.
MAY: There's nothing...
KAMBER: This country has never done that in its history.
MAY: First of all...
KAMBER: What we've got is...
MAY: Victor...
KAMBER: What we've got is a man who I think in the presidency does not understand what he is out, what he is undertaking and frankly has made a commitment to go to war and therefore he's going to do it regardless of world opinion or U.S. opinion.
MAY: Victor, first of all, you -- first of all, it's not preemptive. We, the cease-fire is null and void because the conditions of the cease-fire haven't been met.
Second, even the French admit that Saddam Hussein still has weapons of mass destruction. What the French say is that those programs have been frozen, but they don't know that. Hans Blix says nothing has been disclosed. There are thousands of tons of weapons -- chemical, biological and others -- that he hasn't disclosed.
And as for public opinion, about 67 percent of the American public feels that using military force to disarm Saddam Hussein would be justified. That's according to "Newsweek," CNN, any poll you want. You know how to read polls.
KAMBER: And I have...
ZAHN: But isn't, but, Cliff, doesn't the second part of that question always suggest that it's along with U.N. approval or along with a significant number of allies?
MAY: Yes. A significant number of allies...
ZAHN: I mean when you asked that question and you asked should the U.S. go it alone...
MAY: Paula...
ZAHN: ... then the majority of Americans will say no. KAMBER: That's correct.
MAY: Paula, you're right. We have 23 allies right now. That's 22 more than we had on D-Day in WWII. Last week, eight nations of Europe signed a letter, sent it to the president, in which they said they were supporting. Most NATO members are supporting the president...
KAMBER: And what do we do...
MAY: Next week there will be another letter.
KAMBER: How many arms did we twist to get there?
MAY: This will not be unilateral.
ZAHN: OK, Victor, you get the last word.
KAMBER: How many arms did we twist?
Well, it's just, it's outrageous what we're doing. This is war. Let's stop war. Let's stop for a few minutes to find out what's really going on.
MAY: Victor...
KAMBER: Give the U.N. a chance to work.
MAY: Victor is urging a policy of inaction and appeasement that's never worked in the past and it won't work now.
ZAHN: Victor, you can take five more seconds.
KAMBER: I, well, I just find it, again, as I said earlier, this is war we're talking about, not a checker game.
MAY: We...
KAMBER: And a speech tomorrow, he's got to give, Powell has to give the speech to convince the U.N. to join with the U.S....
MAY: Very...
KAMBER: And to convince the U.S. to support the president.
MAY: Very quickly, Paula, I hope Powell gives a good and persuasive speech. I think he will. At the same time, I don't want one American life lost or one Iraqi life lost because we have revealed sources and methods of how we get intelligence...
KAMBER: Oh, let's not start the secret...
MAY: ... or because weapons of mass destruction are moved.
KAMBER: Let's not start the secret stuff that cost us Vietnam that we don't -- information we can't give. MAY: This is...
KAMBER: If the world is not, if other countries of the world aren't ready for the information, secret information we have, we should not be at war.
MAY: This is...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: OK, time out, gentlemen.
MAY: Victor is still fighting Vietnam.
KAMBER: Italy, Spain, Britain.
ZAHN: I've got to move on to our next segment.
MAY: Thanks, Paula.
ZAHN: It's a good thing I had you physically separated this morning, isn't it?
MAY: We're going to fight it out afterward.
ZAHN: Victor Kamber, Cliff May.
I know. You always do.
Thank you, both of you, for joining us this morning.
KAMBER: Thank you.
MAY: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Security Council>
