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American Morning

Allied Angst

Aired February 11, 2003 - 07:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As we have been reporting, the prospect of war with Iraq is causing a deep division between the U.S. and some of its European allies. France is one of the three nations along with Germany and Belgium leading an effort to keep NATO from planning for Turkey's defense in event of a war with Iraq.
President Bush says that damages the alliance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am disappointed that France would block NATO from helping a country like Turkey prepare. I don't understand that decision. It affects the alliance in a negative way. I think it affects the alliance in a negative way when you're not able to make a statement of mutual defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So how did relations between the U.S. and key allies become so strained? Joining us now from Washington, Stephen Szabo, professor of European studies at Johns Hopkins School for Advanced International Studies and Kenneth Adelman, former director of Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

Good morning, gentlemen, good to have both of you with us.

STEPHEN SZABO, PROFESSOR OF EUROPEAN STUDIES, THE JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Morning.

KENNETH ADELMAN, FORMER U.S. ARMS CONTROL DIRECTOR: Good morning -- Paula.

ZAHN: So, professor, we've heard Turkish officials indicating today that in the end they believe that the other NATO allies will come to the defense if there is a war with Iraq. How do you see this crisis playing out?

SZABO: Well, I agree. I do think if it comes to a war that both the Germans and the French will support Turkey and go along with the NATO consensus. But I do think in the -- before that there will be opposition from the French and the Germans both within NATO and within the U.N., and I do think this is causing a very serious strain between the U.S. and Europe.

ZAHN: How legitimate do you think the concerns are of three governments you just mentioned -- professor? SZABO: I think they're legitimate for two reasons. One is the style of the administration. They have been, I think, really sort of almost bullying the Europeans into saying if you don't like our policy get out of the way. And yet we do need their support, not so much for the actual military conflict, but for after military conflict and for maintaining the most important alliance that we have. So from that point of view, I think they have a point.

And they have a strategic point. They still believe that this war may be necessary but not -- but give it more time, give diplomacy more time. And I think that the Germans, in particular, think we ought to be focusing on al Qaeda and that threat and not broadening the war beyond that and bringing in the Iraqi issue into it.

ZAHN: What do you think of the strategic point, Kenneth, that the professor just raised?

ADELMAN: Well I think that you know it's easy to blame the United States and blame America first on all these things. But I think that you have to understand, first of all, we're not talking about Europe, we're talking about three countries in Europe. Eighteen countries have signed letters supporting the president's view on Iraq.

And No. 2, they just don't have much to offer these days and it must bother them enormously. And that's why we have to keep this in perspective. France contributed very little to the Gulf War the first place. They had some air flights, but radar was so out of date that we needed to accompany them with our planes at the same time. Germans did much nothing during the first Gulf War and they don't have a lot -- not only don't they have a lot of military to contribute, they don't have a lot of ideas to contribute.

When the French Foreign Minister comes before the Security Council right after Colin Powell's very persuasive and very good presentation, and the French Foreign Minister suggests that Iraq pass legislation so that they're cooperating more with the inspectors, this is not a foreign policy or a foreign policy official to be taken seriously.

ZAHN: Professor, what do you think about Kenneth's criticism of the -- perhaps even the inferiority complex perhaps of some of these three countries?

SZABO: Well, first of all, I mean I -- you -- your -- you just had an item on before about the opinion in Britain about the U.S. and you can see this is not simply an isolated case. Most of European opinion does not agree with U.S. policy, for rightly or wrongly, on this issue. And there's a very serious problem the U.S. has throughout Europe, not just in Germany and in France.

And secondly, I think Ken overemphasizes the military aspect of this. But the really big problem is going to be beyond the war, the rebuilding of Iraq's broad coalition in the Middle East, a broad strategy for the Middle East and for that we really need the Europeans. And he said that the Germans didn't do anything in the Gulf War, they put a lot of money into the Gulf War and that effort. So I think we have to think in broader terms and not simply military terms.

ZAHN: Kenneth, a final thought on what the U.S. faces in terms of perception of some of these key allies and what kind of work does the administration need to do on that front (ph)?

ADELMAN: Well I think that the perception is a very short-range problem, to tell you the truth, Paula. I think that two things will happen once we liberate Iraq, people will be dancing in the streets like they were in Afghanistan and very quickly we will see enormous supplies of weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, biological weapons and everybody will have -- wipe their foreheads and say thank God we did it when we did it.

ZAHN: So you say everybody comes around to the U.S. view...

ADELMAN: I just think...

ZAHN: ... after the war is won?

ADELMAN: That is what happened the first Gulf War, that is what happened with Afghanistan and that was what happens if we get on with it with this one as well. We are talking about the liberation of Iraq, which is way overdue.

ZAHN: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there this morning. Professor Stephen Szabo and Kenneth Adelman, thank you for dropping by our show this morning. Appreciate it so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 11, 2003 - 07:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As we have been reporting, the prospect of war with Iraq is causing a deep division between the U.S. and some of its European allies. France is one of the three nations along with Germany and Belgium leading an effort to keep NATO from planning for Turkey's defense in event of a war with Iraq.
President Bush says that damages the alliance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am disappointed that France would block NATO from helping a country like Turkey prepare. I don't understand that decision. It affects the alliance in a negative way. I think it affects the alliance in a negative way when you're not able to make a statement of mutual defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So how did relations between the U.S. and key allies become so strained? Joining us now from Washington, Stephen Szabo, professor of European studies at Johns Hopkins School for Advanced International Studies and Kenneth Adelman, former director of Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

Good morning, gentlemen, good to have both of you with us.

STEPHEN SZABO, PROFESSOR OF EUROPEAN STUDIES, THE JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Morning.

KENNETH ADELMAN, FORMER U.S. ARMS CONTROL DIRECTOR: Good morning -- Paula.

ZAHN: So, professor, we've heard Turkish officials indicating today that in the end they believe that the other NATO allies will come to the defense if there is a war with Iraq. How do you see this crisis playing out?

SZABO: Well, I agree. I do think if it comes to a war that both the Germans and the French will support Turkey and go along with the NATO consensus. But I do think in the -- before that there will be opposition from the French and the Germans both within NATO and within the U.N., and I do think this is causing a very serious strain between the U.S. and Europe.

ZAHN: How legitimate do you think the concerns are of three governments you just mentioned -- professor? SZABO: I think they're legitimate for two reasons. One is the style of the administration. They have been, I think, really sort of almost bullying the Europeans into saying if you don't like our policy get out of the way. And yet we do need their support, not so much for the actual military conflict, but for after military conflict and for maintaining the most important alliance that we have. So from that point of view, I think they have a point.

And they have a strategic point. They still believe that this war may be necessary but not -- but give it more time, give diplomacy more time. And I think that the Germans, in particular, think we ought to be focusing on al Qaeda and that threat and not broadening the war beyond that and bringing in the Iraqi issue into it.

ZAHN: What do you think of the strategic point, Kenneth, that the professor just raised?

ADELMAN: Well I think that you know it's easy to blame the United States and blame America first on all these things. But I think that you have to understand, first of all, we're not talking about Europe, we're talking about three countries in Europe. Eighteen countries have signed letters supporting the president's view on Iraq.

And No. 2, they just don't have much to offer these days and it must bother them enormously. And that's why we have to keep this in perspective. France contributed very little to the Gulf War the first place. They had some air flights, but radar was so out of date that we needed to accompany them with our planes at the same time. Germans did much nothing during the first Gulf War and they don't have a lot -- not only don't they have a lot of military to contribute, they don't have a lot of ideas to contribute.

When the French Foreign Minister comes before the Security Council right after Colin Powell's very persuasive and very good presentation, and the French Foreign Minister suggests that Iraq pass legislation so that they're cooperating more with the inspectors, this is not a foreign policy or a foreign policy official to be taken seriously.

ZAHN: Professor, what do you think about Kenneth's criticism of the -- perhaps even the inferiority complex perhaps of some of these three countries?

SZABO: Well, first of all, I mean I -- you -- your -- you just had an item on before about the opinion in Britain about the U.S. and you can see this is not simply an isolated case. Most of European opinion does not agree with U.S. policy, for rightly or wrongly, on this issue. And there's a very serious problem the U.S. has throughout Europe, not just in Germany and in France.

And secondly, I think Ken overemphasizes the military aspect of this. But the really big problem is going to be beyond the war, the rebuilding of Iraq's broad coalition in the Middle East, a broad strategy for the Middle East and for that we really need the Europeans. And he said that the Germans didn't do anything in the Gulf War, they put a lot of money into the Gulf War and that effort. So I think we have to think in broader terms and not simply military terms.

ZAHN: Kenneth, a final thought on what the U.S. faces in terms of perception of some of these key allies and what kind of work does the administration need to do on that front (ph)?

ADELMAN: Well I think that the perception is a very short-range problem, to tell you the truth, Paula. I think that two things will happen once we liberate Iraq, people will be dancing in the streets like they were in Afghanistan and very quickly we will see enormous supplies of weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, biological weapons and everybody will have -- wipe their foreheads and say thank God we did it when we did it.

ZAHN: So you say everybody comes around to the U.S. view...

ADELMAN: I just think...

ZAHN: ... after the war is won?

ADELMAN: That is what happened the first Gulf War, that is what happened with Afghanistan and that was what happens if we get on with it with this one as well. We are talking about the liberation of Iraq, which is way overdue.

ZAHN: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there this morning. Professor Stephen Szabo and Kenneth Adelman, thank you for dropping by our show this morning. Appreciate it so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com