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American Morning

Who is to Blame for Nightclub Inferno?

Aired February 24, 2003 - 07:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now back to the Rhode Island nightclub tragedy. So far, 42 victims have been positively identified. The governor promises they will work around the clock to get all of the victims identified as quickly as possible.
The fire started when a rock band opened its set with a fireworks display. Investigators are looking at whether the band had permission for the display in the club. They're also looking at soundproofing foam, which may have accelerated the blaze.

Earlier this morning, I spoke with Rhode Island Attorney General Patrick Lynch, and asked him what he is focusing in on at this very early stage of the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PATRICK LYNCH, R.I. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I'm concerned about justice for the families that are in great pain. I'm concerned about this small state and community that's so tight-knit that it's been literally ripped apart and devastated by the tragic loss of life.

You know, people say around this planet there are six degrees of separation, and Rhode Island is about a degree-and-a-half. There is an emotional tie, which is calling and crying for justice that is mounting every day. I cannot, as the chief law enforcement officer leading the talented men and women in uniform seeking a determination of whether or not a crime has occurred, I cannot let that tide dictate how we conduct ourselves and will not.

But we are cognizant of that pain, and we are not resting, nor will we rest, until we can make that determination public and offer some solace perhaps to the poor people that are suffering in our state.

ZAHN: It would appear to me that one of your biggest challenges is reconciling the conflicting stories you've heard so far. The owners of the club are saying they were not told about any pyrotechnics that the group would be using, but on the other hand, here is what the lead singer of Great White told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK RUSSELL, ROCK GROUP GREAT WHITE: Well, my reaction is that's very negligent. You know, obviously if somebody tells us that we're OK to do pyro, we're going to assume that it checked out and they've done all of their homework, you know, because we're not -- we don't do this every night. You know, we only do it when we have express permission from the owners to do it, because it's not our club. And I wouldn't come to your house and, you know, light your fireplace without asking permission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: You heard what Jack Russell just had to say, they had permission to do what they did. Who is telling the truth here?

LYNCH: Well, that ultimately is the determination perhaps that will be found in a court of law by a jury. I can tell you this: That the band members have been cooperative and responsive to questions posed to them, and I anticipate them being just that way as we proceed in this investigation, and again, ultimately in a court if necessary.

The club owners -- that's Mr. Michael Derderian and Mr. Jeffrey Derderian -- however, have not, as of yet, been as responsive. Mr. Jeffrey Derderian answered some questions posed to him at the scene when this horrific incident was unfolding. Mr. Michael Derderian was out of town. When he returned, he would not respond to questions. And thus far, some days after it now, neither have responded to questions.

They have had a public comment presented through Jeff Derderian. I have indicated publicly, and I repeat today, that I would enjoy and I am hopeful that the Derderians are as cooperative with law enforcement officials as they have been with the press. We're trying to get...

ZAHN: What are the questions, sir, they're not answering?

LYNCH: Well, you posed a couple of them. I think there's a whole menu of questions that we need -- that I need answered, and the men and women in uniform assisting me in this investigation need answered for me to make a deterring -- a determination -- excuse me -- a fair determination based on all of the facts, all of the evidence.

You, as many have, have kind of focused on the two groups, should I say. I don't have a short list. What we do have is we have 97 dead, and we have many others clinging to life as we speak. I need for this community, and I think for our nation which is watching, to get to the bottom of it. But I need to stand by my power and responsibility, look at all of the facts, all of the evidence, and make a determination based on our applicable law.

ZAHN: Sir, is it possible that both members of the band and the owners of the club might face criminal charges?

LYNCH: It's possible that anybody inside that building, and perhaps the people involved in things leading up to that event that evening, may face criminal charges. Again, I don't have a short list.

But I can tell you this: I almost literally have not rested since this horrific event happened. I went to the scene with my team almost immediately, and we will not rest until justice is done. Whether or not justice is a part of a criminal process is something I'll make public as quickly as possible, cognizant again of the great pain that our community is suffering.

ZAHN: Well, we wish you...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

And we are back now with Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst.

Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

ZAHN: So, we just heard the attorney general say he is considering criminal charges, not only against the owners of the club, but potentially members of the band. How difficult will it be to prove intent? No one wanted 97 people to die.

TOOBIN: Right. It's very difficult to prove the kind of crime that gets long prison sentences like intentional murder. There are some crimes, potentially things like manslaughter, which involve recklessness as opposed to, you know, intent that someone die. Those are the most likely charges, and those are the charges that have historically been brought in the cases of fires and disasters of this type.

ZAHN: Obviously, families are going to be looking for justice, and a lot of families are going to be looking for compensation. Look at the assets of the club owners and look at the assets of the band. Do they...

TOOBIN: You know, we can talk...

ZAHN: How does that play?

TOOBIN: We can talk about civil lawsuits all we want about, you know, theories under which the band is liable, or under which the club is liable. But either one probably has next to no assets, and maybe you're talking about $100,000 worth of insurance, which is probably typical for a small business like that. You know, with almost 100 people dead, it's a trivial amount of money.

What plaintiffs' lawyers will certainly be doing is looking for potentially deeper pockets in connection with this.

ZAHN: Like the manufacturers of the foam...

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Manufacturers of the foam, potentially the people who installed the foam, the owner of the real estate at the club, not the owner of the club. Those are the people with more money. Those are the people that if there's going to be any sort of recovery, that's where it's likely to come from.

ZAHN: Do you see any recovery at all?

TOOBIN: Yes, I do. I mean, I think there will be some sort of payments made. But I mean, in comparison to the scope of this tragedy, if you look at the big disasters like in Kansas City, there was the hotel that collapsed in 1987, I think it was. There was a tremendous amount of litigation there because it was a Hyatt Regency, Hallmark owned the real estate -- companies with lots of money. Here, it's more like the Happy Land social club in the Bronx in I believe which was in the '90s, where a lot of people died, but there really wasn't very much money to give out to the people who died.

ZAHN: Thank you for educating us this morning as always. Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired February 24, 2003 - 07:04   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now back to the Rhode Island nightclub tragedy. So far, 42 victims have been positively identified. The governor promises they will work around the clock to get all of the victims identified as quickly as possible.
The fire started when a rock band opened its set with a fireworks display. Investigators are looking at whether the band had permission for the display in the club. They're also looking at soundproofing foam, which may have accelerated the blaze.

Earlier this morning, I spoke with Rhode Island Attorney General Patrick Lynch, and asked him what he is focusing in on at this very early stage of the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PATRICK LYNCH, R.I. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I'm concerned about justice for the families that are in great pain. I'm concerned about this small state and community that's so tight-knit that it's been literally ripped apart and devastated by the tragic loss of life.

You know, people say around this planet there are six degrees of separation, and Rhode Island is about a degree-and-a-half. There is an emotional tie, which is calling and crying for justice that is mounting every day. I cannot, as the chief law enforcement officer leading the talented men and women in uniform seeking a determination of whether or not a crime has occurred, I cannot let that tide dictate how we conduct ourselves and will not.

But we are cognizant of that pain, and we are not resting, nor will we rest, until we can make that determination public and offer some solace perhaps to the poor people that are suffering in our state.

ZAHN: It would appear to me that one of your biggest challenges is reconciling the conflicting stories you've heard so far. The owners of the club are saying they were not told about any pyrotechnics that the group would be using, but on the other hand, here is what the lead singer of Great White told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK RUSSELL, ROCK GROUP GREAT WHITE: Well, my reaction is that's very negligent. You know, obviously if somebody tells us that we're OK to do pyro, we're going to assume that it checked out and they've done all of their homework, you know, because we're not -- we don't do this every night. You know, we only do it when we have express permission from the owners to do it, because it's not our club. And I wouldn't come to your house and, you know, light your fireplace without asking permission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: You heard what Jack Russell just had to say, they had permission to do what they did. Who is telling the truth here?

LYNCH: Well, that ultimately is the determination perhaps that will be found in a court of law by a jury. I can tell you this: That the band members have been cooperative and responsive to questions posed to them, and I anticipate them being just that way as we proceed in this investigation, and again, ultimately in a court if necessary.

The club owners -- that's Mr. Michael Derderian and Mr. Jeffrey Derderian -- however, have not, as of yet, been as responsive. Mr. Jeffrey Derderian answered some questions posed to him at the scene when this horrific incident was unfolding. Mr. Michael Derderian was out of town. When he returned, he would not respond to questions. And thus far, some days after it now, neither have responded to questions.

They have had a public comment presented through Jeff Derderian. I have indicated publicly, and I repeat today, that I would enjoy and I am hopeful that the Derderians are as cooperative with law enforcement officials as they have been with the press. We're trying to get...

ZAHN: What are the questions, sir, they're not answering?

LYNCH: Well, you posed a couple of them. I think there's a whole menu of questions that we need -- that I need answered, and the men and women in uniform assisting me in this investigation need answered for me to make a deterring -- a determination -- excuse me -- a fair determination based on all of the facts, all of the evidence.

You, as many have, have kind of focused on the two groups, should I say. I don't have a short list. What we do have is we have 97 dead, and we have many others clinging to life as we speak. I need for this community, and I think for our nation which is watching, to get to the bottom of it. But I need to stand by my power and responsibility, look at all of the facts, all of the evidence, and make a determination based on our applicable law.

ZAHN: Sir, is it possible that both members of the band and the owners of the club might face criminal charges?

LYNCH: It's possible that anybody inside that building, and perhaps the people involved in things leading up to that event that evening, may face criminal charges. Again, I don't have a short list.

But I can tell you this: I almost literally have not rested since this horrific event happened. I went to the scene with my team almost immediately, and we will not rest until justice is done. Whether or not justice is a part of a criminal process is something I'll make public as quickly as possible, cognizant again of the great pain that our community is suffering.

ZAHN: Well, we wish you...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

And we are back now with Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst.

Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

ZAHN: So, we just heard the attorney general say he is considering criminal charges, not only against the owners of the club, but potentially members of the band. How difficult will it be to prove intent? No one wanted 97 people to die.

TOOBIN: Right. It's very difficult to prove the kind of crime that gets long prison sentences like intentional murder. There are some crimes, potentially things like manslaughter, which involve recklessness as opposed to, you know, intent that someone die. Those are the most likely charges, and those are the charges that have historically been brought in the cases of fires and disasters of this type.

ZAHN: Obviously, families are going to be looking for justice, and a lot of families are going to be looking for compensation. Look at the assets of the club owners and look at the assets of the band. Do they...

TOOBIN: You know, we can talk...

ZAHN: How does that play?

TOOBIN: We can talk about civil lawsuits all we want about, you know, theories under which the band is liable, or under which the club is liable. But either one probably has next to no assets, and maybe you're talking about $100,000 worth of insurance, which is probably typical for a small business like that. You know, with almost 100 people dead, it's a trivial amount of money.

What plaintiffs' lawyers will certainly be doing is looking for potentially deeper pockets in connection with this.

ZAHN: Like the manufacturers of the foam...

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Manufacturers of the foam, potentially the people who installed the foam, the owner of the real estate at the club, not the owner of the club. Those are the people with more money. Those are the people that if there's going to be any sort of recovery, that's where it's likely to come from.

ZAHN: Do you see any recovery at all?

TOOBIN: Yes, I do. I mean, I think there will be some sort of payments made. But I mean, in comparison to the scope of this tragedy, if you look at the big disasters like in Kansas City, there was the hotel that collapsed in 1987, I think it was. There was a tremendous amount of litigation there because it was a Hyatt Regency, Hallmark owned the real estate -- companies with lots of money. Here, it's more like the Happy Land social club in the Bronx in I believe which was in the '90s, where a lot of people died, but there really wasn't very much money to give out to the people who died.

ZAHN: Thank you for educating us this morning as always. Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.