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American Morning

A Tough Day for NASA's Chief

Aired February 28, 2003 - 08:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: A tough day for NASA's chief, defending the agency's handling of internal e-mails that suggested Columbia might be headed for disaster. Sean O'Keefe told a congressional hearing yesterday that the concerns of engineers about damage to Columbia's wing were reviewed. He said it was ultimately determined that the shuttle could return safely.
Let's talk more about it with Randy Avera, our shuttle expert, back at the CNN Center.

Good morning, Randy.

Good to see you again.

RANDY AVERA, CNN SHUTTLE ANALYST: Good morning.

HEMMER: If you can hear me, Randy, we're going to fire up your microphone down there.

Sean O'Keefe says the evaluation was done properly at the proper levels.

Do you see it the same way?

AVERA: I'm surprised that the administrators did not...

HEMMER: All right, hang on one second there and just to give our viewers an idea here, we're going to get a microphone on Randy.

In the meantime, though, here is a portion of what happened yesterday in that House committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA: We're trying to get it out as fast as possible...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, sir, I have eight seconds left.

O'KEEFE: Yes, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not really interested in when the "New York Times" got it. I'm interested in when you, the guy that we put in charge of this, got it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HEMMER: So, then, there are ultimately a number of questions right now about how NASA handled this, where did the e-mails go, at what level were they received, did Sean O'Keefe, did others have any access to these e-mails and would it ultimately have made any difference upon reentry before Columbia broke up, shattering over the State of Texas?

When we get things worked out, Randy is back with us in a moment.

Let's get a break here.

Back on AMERICAN MORNING after this.

COMMERCIAL

HEMMER: All righty, as promised, back to the CNN Center and Randy Avera, our shuttle expert, to take us through the testimony of yesterday.

Randy, do we have you now?

Very good. Excellent. We've got you here.

Listen, Sean O'Keefe essentially said that the proper channels were followed but further review will come as a result of this.

Were you buying the answers as of yesterday?

AVERA: Well, there is no debate whether the administrators should know about this possible damage to the tiles on the lower part of the orbiter. An easy way to determine that, if this damage was OK for reentry, it would certainly be OK for a launch. For example, if a tile was damaged or missing on the shuttle prior to launch, would it be OK to fly a shuttle with a missing tile?

These e-mails were, as Sean O'Keefe said yesterday before the hearing, that they were at fairly senior levels of management and certainly the administrator should know about this. The administrator participates at the Kennedy Space Center for launches and landing recoveries and is normally briefed on what may be considered not significant issues by some. But studies during the 1990s about the vulnerability of the tiles on the belly of the orbiter, it's known throughout the agency that these areas are very vulnerable and the consequences of lost tiles or damaged tiles can be very significant during the mission boost to orbit and reentry.

HEMMER: Yes, Randy, I understand all of that, though. Based on the testimony yesterday, what do you think ultimately is the issue here? Is it bad management?

AVERA: I wouldn't characterize it as bad management. People tend to desensitize the severity of problems and it takes courage in an organization, a government organization or a private industry organization, to take what might not be a very popular piece of news and take it forward to the top levels of management. And it takes the entire management culture to take all information, whether they consider it major or minor, to the highest level of decision-making authority.

HEMMER: Yes, and ultimately, though, as we look back at this with hindsight, and it's perfect vision right now. We can look back and readjust so many things. Is there anything that suggests to you right now that had these e-mails been distributed to the higher reaches of management at NASA that they would have made any decisions differently upon reentry two weeks ago?

AVERA: Well, one decision that could be made very much for the public safety in mind, for example, we flew many times plutonium, which is a very high grade radioactive material, and if we knew, for example, that there was a problem that could exist during reentry, we can change the deorbit burn and have the orbiter to fly over unpopulated areas. These are very important decisions for public safety as well as the survivability of the spacecraft itself that could be conducted. And this particular mission did not have nuclear material on board in the quantities like the Galileo spacecraft to Jupiter back in the 1980s. 1989 was that launch.

So it's a matter of safety throughout the entire mission.

HEMMER: Point well taken.

Thanks, Randy.

Randy Avera at the CNN Center.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 28, 2003 - 08:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: A tough day for NASA's chief, defending the agency's handling of internal e-mails that suggested Columbia might be headed for disaster. Sean O'Keefe told a congressional hearing yesterday that the concerns of engineers about damage to Columbia's wing were reviewed. He said it was ultimately determined that the shuttle could return safely.
Let's talk more about it with Randy Avera, our shuttle expert, back at the CNN Center.

Good morning, Randy.

Good to see you again.

RANDY AVERA, CNN SHUTTLE ANALYST: Good morning.

HEMMER: If you can hear me, Randy, we're going to fire up your microphone down there.

Sean O'Keefe says the evaluation was done properly at the proper levels.

Do you see it the same way?

AVERA: I'm surprised that the administrators did not...

HEMMER: All right, hang on one second there and just to give our viewers an idea here, we're going to get a microphone on Randy.

In the meantime, though, here is a portion of what happened yesterday in that House committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA: We're trying to get it out as fast as possible...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, sir, I have eight seconds left.

O'KEEFE: Yes, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not really interested in when the "New York Times" got it. I'm interested in when you, the guy that we put in charge of this, got it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HEMMER: So, then, there are ultimately a number of questions right now about how NASA handled this, where did the e-mails go, at what level were they received, did Sean O'Keefe, did others have any access to these e-mails and would it ultimately have made any difference upon reentry before Columbia broke up, shattering over the State of Texas?

When we get things worked out, Randy is back with us in a moment.

Let's get a break here.

Back on AMERICAN MORNING after this.

COMMERCIAL

HEMMER: All righty, as promised, back to the CNN Center and Randy Avera, our shuttle expert, to take us through the testimony of yesterday.

Randy, do we have you now?

Very good. Excellent. We've got you here.

Listen, Sean O'Keefe essentially said that the proper channels were followed but further review will come as a result of this.

Were you buying the answers as of yesterday?

AVERA: Well, there is no debate whether the administrators should know about this possible damage to the tiles on the lower part of the orbiter. An easy way to determine that, if this damage was OK for reentry, it would certainly be OK for a launch. For example, if a tile was damaged or missing on the shuttle prior to launch, would it be OK to fly a shuttle with a missing tile?

These e-mails were, as Sean O'Keefe said yesterday before the hearing, that they were at fairly senior levels of management and certainly the administrator should know about this. The administrator participates at the Kennedy Space Center for launches and landing recoveries and is normally briefed on what may be considered not significant issues by some. But studies during the 1990s about the vulnerability of the tiles on the belly of the orbiter, it's known throughout the agency that these areas are very vulnerable and the consequences of lost tiles or damaged tiles can be very significant during the mission boost to orbit and reentry.

HEMMER: Yes, Randy, I understand all of that, though. Based on the testimony yesterday, what do you think ultimately is the issue here? Is it bad management?

AVERA: I wouldn't characterize it as bad management. People tend to desensitize the severity of problems and it takes courage in an organization, a government organization or a private industry organization, to take what might not be a very popular piece of news and take it forward to the top levels of management. And it takes the entire management culture to take all information, whether they consider it major or minor, to the highest level of decision-making authority.

HEMMER: Yes, and ultimately, though, as we look back at this with hindsight, and it's perfect vision right now. We can look back and readjust so many things. Is there anything that suggests to you right now that had these e-mails been distributed to the higher reaches of management at NASA that they would have made any decisions differently upon reentry two weeks ago?

AVERA: Well, one decision that could be made very much for the public safety in mind, for example, we flew many times plutonium, which is a very high grade radioactive material, and if we knew, for example, that there was a problem that could exist during reentry, we can change the deorbit burn and have the orbiter to fly over unpopulated areas. These are very important decisions for public safety as well as the survivability of the spacecraft itself that could be conducted. And this particular mission did not have nuclear material on board in the quantities like the Galileo spacecraft to Jupiter back in the 1980s. 1989 was that launch.

So it's a matter of safety throughout the entire mission.

HEMMER: Point well taken.

Thanks, Randy.

Randy Avera at the CNN Center.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com