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American Morning

Discussion with Eric Margolis

Aired March 03, 2003 - 09:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The capture of Al Qaeda leader Khalid Shaikh Mohammed ends one of the most intense manhunts since the September 11th attacks. Mohammed was arrested Saturday in Pakistan. It was believed that he was one of the key planners of the 9/11 attacks. He is also suspected of playing a major role in recruiting for the terror network and planning its operations. So what does this mean?
Eric Margolis, author of "War at the Top of the World" joins us from West Palm Beach, Florida.

We're jealous. Good morning, Eric. Welcome.

ERIC MARGOLIS, AUTHOR, "WAR AT THE TOP WORLD": Good morning.

ZAHN: How big a blow is this to Al Qaeda?

MARGOLIS: It's a major blow. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the chairman the military committee of Al Qaeda, which is sort of the third ranking organ within the organization. He was in charge of the military planning, as you said, recruitment, and of long-range planning.

Most important of all, he was in charge of liaison and recruiting with other non-Qaeda anti-American organizations, stretching from Morocco to Indonesia.

ZAHN: Let's talk about what may have been in the works at the time of the arrest. Intelligence officers confirming that he had contact with sleeper cells in United States, a number of published reports, as well as some of CNN's own reporting today, bearing a plan cutting for cutting the suspension wires on bridges, hijacking tanker trucks and plowing them into gas stations. What is the possibility of these attacks being carried on without him?

MARGOLIS: They are possible, because the Al Qaeda structure is set up so the cells can operate independently once they are given their instructions and funding. In fact, Paula I was very surprised that his arrest was announced. I thought it was a mistake. Normally you would arrest the person quietly and then go and roll up his cells or squeeze him for information to arrest his people.

Now a lot of cell members have had time to abort their missions or go deep underground, destroy their codes and to break of all communications.

ZAHN: There is a theory that was bandied about "USA Today" that a distinct possibility was attacks could be carried off if the sleeper cell members feel that their identities have been compromised in any way. Do you fear that?

MARGOLIS: I think that is possible, particularly for the more suicidally organized ones. But we may be overreacting a bit to these reports of large-scale attacks on the United States. You know, really over the last year, Al Qaeda's numbers have -- attacks have been small. The success race has not been very large, and what concerns me more than Al Qaeda-influenced groups are the non-Al Qaeda groups, particularly from North Africa, like the fighting Salapist (ph) groups, who are a particular danger. They come from Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria. They are very violent, they're concentrated in Europe, but they're now targeting the United States. They may prove a greater foe than Qaeda's Arab members.

HEMMER; Let's talk for a moment about what you think intelligence officer actually have their hands on, cell phone records, documents seized in this apartment where Mohammed was arrested, computer hard drives. What do you think might be found in those documents and those materials? Or are these guys are so smart that everything is coded and no one can figure it out?

MARGOLIS: Paula, he should have been that smart not to have anything available on his person, because Qaeda operatives, like Abu Zabaydah, have been arrested, and they have been found with a lot of incriminating information and leads. If he were really skilled, he would have had none of this in his residence, he would have codes that couldn't be broken.

But he probably did have these things, and certainly where he's being taken now, to Jordan, for example, or to Kuwait, or one of the Arab countries, he's going to be interrogated in methods, let me put it politely, that would be illegal in the United States.

ZAHN: You're talking about torture then?

MARGOLIS: Yes, I am talking about torture. And it has been the case with other Qaeda members, they have been tortured in Arab countries allied to the United States. Once they're squeezed dry, then they're shipped to -- under American control. This way, the U.S. government can say it doesn't practice torture. But he will be roughly handled, and he'll be squeezed of a great deal of information.

ZAHN: Eric, just a final thought that Mike Boettcher shared with us earlier this morning that was quite chilling. He said, people he talked to are surprised this guy was found asleep, because he was known to travel with cyanide pills on him, and he planned to kill himself if anybody was hot on his trail. Interesting, isn't it?

MARGOLIS: Well, yes, this was a coup by the FBI. Look at the picture of his arrest, he looks worse than do I in the morning, obviously routed out of bed. But the remarkable thing is he was hiding literally across the street from Pakistani army headquarters, the seat of Pakistan's government. In other words, he was right under the nose of the Pakistanis all this time, and apparently, up until now they didn't know. ZAHN: Eric Margolis, as always, thanks for your insights.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 3, 2003 - 09:35   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The capture of Al Qaeda leader Khalid Shaikh Mohammed ends one of the most intense manhunts since the September 11th attacks. Mohammed was arrested Saturday in Pakistan. It was believed that he was one of the key planners of the 9/11 attacks. He is also suspected of playing a major role in recruiting for the terror network and planning its operations. So what does this mean?
Eric Margolis, author of "War at the Top of the World" joins us from West Palm Beach, Florida.

We're jealous. Good morning, Eric. Welcome.

ERIC MARGOLIS, AUTHOR, "WAR AT THE TOP WORLD": Good morning.

ZAHN: How big a blow is this to Al Qaeda?

MARGOLIS: It's a major blow. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the chairman the military committee of Al Qaeda, which is sort of the third ranking organ within the organization. He was in charge of the military planning, as you said, recruitment, and of long-range planning.

Most important of all, he was in charge of liaison and recruiting with other non-Qaeda anti-American organizations, stretching from Morocco to Indonesia.

ZAHN: Let's talk about what may have been in the works at the time of the arrest. Intelligence officers confirming that he had contact with sleeper cells in United States, a number of published reports, as well as some of CNN's own reporting today, bearing a plan cutting for cutting the suspension wires on bridges, hijacking tanker trucks and plowing them into gas stations. What is the possibility of these attacks being carried on without him?

MARGOLIS: They are possible, because the Al Qaeda structure is set up so the cells can operate independently once they are given their instructions and funding. In fact, Paula I was very surprised that his arrest was announced. I thought it was a mistake. Normally you would arrest the person quietly and then go and roll up his cells or squeeze him for information to arrest his people.

Now a lot of cell members have had time to abort their missions or go deep underground, destroy their codes and to break of all communications.

ZAHN: There is a theory that was bandied about "USA Today" that a distinct possibility was attacks could be carried off if the sleeper cell members feel that their identities have been compromised in any way. Do you fear that?

MARGOLIS: I think that is possible, particularly for the more suicidally organized ones. But we may be overreacting a bit to these reports of large-scale attacks on the United States. You know, really over the last year, Al Qaeda's numbers have -- attacks have been small. The success race has not been very large, and what concerns me more than Al Qaeda-influenced groups are the non-Al Qaeda groups, particularly from North Africa, like the fighting Salapist (ph) groups, who are a particular danger. They come from Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria. They are very violent, they're concentrated in Europe, but they're now targeting the United States. They may prove a greater foe than Qaeda's Arab members.

HEMMER; Let's talk for a moment about what you think intelligence officer actually have their hands on, cell phone records, documents seized in this apartment where Mohammed was arrested, computer hard drives. What do you think might be found in those documents and those materials? Or are these guys are so smart that everything is coded and no one can figure it out?

MARGOLIS: Paula, he should have been that smart not to have anything available on his person, because Qaeda operatives, like Abu Zabaydah, have been arrested, and they have been found with a lot of incriminating information and leads. If he were really skilled, he would have had none of this in his residence, he would have codes that couldn't be broken.

But he probably did have these things, and certainly where he's being taken now, to Jordan, for example, or to Kuwait, or one of the Arab countries, he's going to be interrogated in methods, let me put it politely, that would be illegal in the United States.

ZAHN: You're talking about torture then?

MARGOLIS: Yes, I am talking about torture. And it has been the case with other Qaeda members, they have been tortured in Arab countries allied to the United States. Once they're squeezed dry, then they're shipped to -- under American control. This way, the U.S. government can say it doesn't practice torture. But he will be roughly handled, and he'll be squeezed of a great deal of information.

ZAHN: Eric, just a final thought that Mike Boettcher shared with us earlier this morning that was quite chilling. He said, people he talked to are surprised this guy was found asleep, because he was known to travel with cyanide pills on him, and he planned to kill himself if anybody was hot on his trail. Interesting, isn't it?

MARGOLIS: Well, yes, this was a coup by the FBI. Look at the picture of his arrest, he looks worse than do I in the morning, obviously routed out of bed. But the remarkable thing is he was hiding literally across the street from Pakistani army headquarters, the seat of Pakistan's government. In other words, he was right under the nose of the Pakistanis all this time, and apparently, up until now they didn't know. ZAHN: Eric Margolis, as always, thanks for your insights.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com