Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Do Protests Work?

Aired March 05, 2003 - 09:37   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: A national student strike planned to demonstration opposition to any military action against Baghdad. Antiwar activists hope to build on the momentum of last week's global rally -- that took place on the 15 of February -- with another day of marches and demonstrations. But the question today, what impact, if any, do anti-war protests have?
Live here in New York City, Max Boot from the Council on Foreign Relations. He is one of our guest on one side. And Columbia University Professor Todd Getlin is with us as well.

Professor, good morning to you as well.

Professor, start us off here -- you believe the protests have an impact, do have a measure degree of the politicians and military strategy. Tell us why?

TODD GETLIN, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Well, sometimes they do. In the case of the Vietnam War, the demonstrations often retarded both President Johnson and President Nixon from the maximal sort of escalations they had in mind. And in that sense, they relieved suffering, they arranged that they were responsible of the fact that fewer people were killed, both Americans and Vietnamese, than otherwise would have been the case.

I wouldn't therefore extrapolate and say that the same situation applies today, because the president in the White House now seems impervious to protests or, in fact, to expressions of public opinion generally, whether in the U.S. or anywhere in the world.

HEMMER: Max, as I go to you, though, you say historically, peace demands have led to more killing. How so? Defend that?

MAX BOOT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: What often happens is that peace protesters lead to a war being dragged out. That happened during the Vietnam War, led to it being dragged out, and ultimately led to the communist takeover of South Vietnam and Cambodia, which led to millions being killed.

What's happening today in the case of the Iraq demonstrations is they are giving Saddam Hussein hope, they are giving Saddam Hussein hope that his enemies are divided and he does not have to comply with the will of the U.N. Security Council as expressed in resolution 1441.

If you look at what the Iraqi media are saying, they are welcoming protests, and Saddam Hussein is never going to comply with these demands as long as he thinks he can win at the end of the day, that his enemies are divided, and that's the message that he's taking away. And therefore, the Iraq protests are making war more, not less, likely.

HEMMER: Interesting argument. We've heard it before. Do you agree with that?

GETLIN: No, I don't see any reason to believe that Saddam Hussein is sincere, or that his media are either sincere or believed by the people that is after all a country ruled by a serial mass murderer, a tyrant and known liar. Of course, he's going to inflate the -- or warp his reading of the protests. But there's no reason to believe that most of his people take seriously this sort of thing.

HEMMER: I think if we can take it a step deeper here, in the event of war, professor, you start, do the protests change? Do they back off some? Do they now get behind the U.S. as it goes forward?

BOOT: That's an interesting question. I think that the anti-war movement, if war begins, will face the question, what does it have to say about who's going to rule Iraq, about what limits should be set on the Turks, what should be done for the Kurds, should the government in exile be the government in actuality, should the U.S. troops stay and so on. Those will be important questions. And the anti-war movement at that point, I think, could have some impact by expressing itself clearly on those questions.

HEMMER: Max, I want to get to you, final comment here. I'm curious how you can answer this in 30 seconds or not -- do you think right now the protests we're seeing in this country or other world capitals is a small slice of opposition or is it truly representing a majority opinion against this war?

GETLIN: Depends where you're talking about. In the United States it's a small slice. Polls show 60 percent of the American public support president bush whether he has U.N. backing or not. Obviously, there's more opposition in Europe. But even in Europe, most of the elected governments of Europe are behind the United States, not behind the anti-war demonstrators. I don't think the war demonstrators represent the will of most people.

The final point I would make is that I find it appalling that these demonstrations are completely oblivious to the suffering of the Iraqi people, they don't have anything to say about the victims of Saddam Hussein's terrible tyrannical rule. I think that's something they need to focus more on.

HEMMER: We will see today, if indeed the protest materialize the way they're predicted. Max Boot, thanks, professor Todd Getlin, thank you, men.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 5, 2003 - 09:37   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: A national student strike planned to demonstration opposition to any military action against Baghdad. Antiwar activists hope to build on the momentum of last week's global rally -- that took place on the 15 of February -- with another day of marches and demonstrations. But the question today, what impact, if any, do anti-war protests have?
Live here in New York City, Max Boot from the Council on Foreign Relations. He is one of our guest on one side. And Columbia University Professor Todd Getlin is with us as well.

Professor, good morning to you as well.

Professor, start us off here -- you believe the protests have an impact, do have a measure degree of the politicians and military strategy. Tell us why?

TODD GETLIN, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Well, sometimes they do. In the case of the Vietnam War, the demonstrations often retarded both President Johnson and President Nixon from the maximal sort of escalations they had in mind. And in that sense, they relieved suffering, they arranged that they were responsible of the fact that fewer people were killed, both Americans and Vietnamese, than otherwise would have been the case.

I wouldn't therefore extrapolate and say that the same situation applies today, because the president in the White House now seems impervious to protests or, in fact, to expressions of public opinion generally, whether in the U.S. or anywhere in the world.

HEMMER: Max, as I go to you, though, you say historically, peace demands have led to more killing. How so? Defend that?

MAX BOOT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: What often happens is that peace protesters lead to a war being dragged out. That happened during the Vietnam War, led to it being dragged out, and ultimately led to the communist takeover of South Vietnam and Cambodia, which led to millions being killed.

What's happening today in the case of the Iraq demonstrations is they are giving Saddam Hussein hope, they are giving Saddam Hussein hope that his enemies are divided and he does not have to comply with the will of the U.N. Security Council as expressed in resolution 1441.

If you look at what the Iraqi media are saying, they are welcoming protests, and Saddam Hussein is never going to comply with these demands as long as he thinks he can win at the end of the day, that his enemies are divided, and that's the message that he's taking away. And therefore, the Iraq protests are making war more, not less, likely.

HEMMER: Interesting argument. We've heard it before. Do you agree with that?

GETLIN: No, I don't see any reason to believe that Saddam Hussein is sincere, or that his media are either sincere or believed by the people that is after all a country ruled by a serial mass murderer, a tyrant and known liar. Of course, he's going to inflate the -- or warp his reading of the protests. But there's no reason to believe that most of his people take seriously this sort of thing.

HEMMER: I think if we can take it a step deeper here, in the event of war, professor, you start, do the protests change? Do they back off some? Do they now get behind the U.S. as it goes forward?

BOOT: That's an interesting question. I think that the anti-war movement, if war begins, will face the question, what does it have to say about who's going to rule Iraq, about what limits should be set on the Turks, what should be done for the Kurds, should the government in exile be the government in actuality, should the U.S. troops stay and so on. Those will be important questions. And the anti-war movement at that point, I think, could have some impact by expressing itself clearly on those questions.

HEMMER: Max, I want to get to you, final comment here. I'm curious how you can answer this in 30 seconds or not -- do you think right now the protests we're seeing in this country or other world capitals is a small slice of opposition or is it truly representing a majority opinion against this war?

GETLIN: Depends where you're talking about. In the United States it's a small slice. Polls show 60 percent of the American public support president bush whether he has U.N. backing or not. Obviously, there's more opposition in Europe. But even in Europe, most of the elected governments of Europe are behind the United States, not behind the anti-war demonstrators. I don't think the war demonstrators represent the will of most people.

The final point I would make is that I find it appalling that these demonstrations are completely oblivious to the suffering of the Iraqi people, they don't have anything to say about the victims of Saddam Hussein's terrible tyrannical rule. I think that's something they need to focus more on.

HEMMER: We will see today, if indeed the protest materialize the way they're predicted. Max Boot, thanks, professor Todd Getlin, thank you, men.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com