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American Morning

Discussion with Pakistani Ambassador to U.N.

Aired March 10, 2003 - 09:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As the U.S. and Britain battle to win support on second resolution about Iraq, British Prime Minister Tony Blair faces a potential political revolt at home. For more -- and by revolt, we actually mean some political fallout -- and we're going to senior European political correspondent Robin Oakley who has more.
Good morning, Robin.

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN SR. EUROPEAN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.

And the pressures are really building now on Tony Blair. He spent the whole weekend at his country retreat in Checkers, on the phone to different world leaders, trying to win support for the second U.N. Security Council resolution. They wouldn't tell us at Downing Street this morning, as they usually do, who he'd spoken to, so it probably hadn't been successful. Then Tony Blair had the other massive blow that his international development secretary, Claire Short, has said she will resign from his cabinet if he doesn't get the second U.N. Security Council resolution and still goes ahead with military action.

And interestingly, he's spoke to her twice since she announced this in an interview, and she is still sitting there as a member of his cabinet. Normally, anybody with that sort of disloyal behavior would have been out of their job without their feet touching major the ground outside Downing Street. It's a sign of the weakness that he wanted to make a martyr of her. He's already had 122 Labor MPs rebel against his policy on Iraq in a House of Commons vote. An ex-minister is now warning it could be 150, 200 Labor MPs, maybe, rebelling, if he doesn't get the second U.N. Security Council resolution, absolutely crucial to his political future -- Paula.

ZAHN: So, Robin, what else do you think is at stake for the prime minister in the next week or so?

OAKLEY: Well, everything is at stake for the prime minister, according to that second U.N. Security Council resolution. In the country at large, the latest opinion poll here in Britain shows that 77 percent of the populace would go with him on a war against Iraq, provided there was U.N. Security Council backing. Without that backing, only 15 percent of the public will back to Tony Blair.

And the odds are that he doesn't get that resolution through, he's going to have to face a vote in the House of Commons, which he will have to carry only with the support of conservative opposition MPs. So Tony Blair would then be leading a party, more than half of which didn't really agree with him on biggest single political issue of the day. He would be enormously politically weakened, and then gambling his whole future really on the successful and short course of any war against Iraq -- Paula.

ZAHN: Robin Oakley, thanks so much for the update.

Pakistan happens to be one of the Security Council members still on the fence regarding a new U.N. resolution on Iraq. Munir Akram is the ambassador to the United Nations from Pakistan. He joins us this morning from the U.N.

Mr. Ambassador, glad to have you with us this morning. Welcome.

MUNIR AKRAM, PAKISTAN AMB. TO U.N.: Pleasure to be with you.

ZAHN: How is Pakistan likely to vote on this new resolution, the new U.S.-sponsored resolution that would call for this March 17 deadline for disarmament?

AKRAM: Well, we'll have to decide how to vote when the vote is taken The end game is still in play. I think there will be several moves made before the vote. We should have to see how things turn out. We are for a peaceful solution. We have been trying to find middle ground. We are still trying to find middle ground for a peaceful solution.

ZAHN: When you say the end game is in play, I'm curious how much weight the discovery of this drone will have on your decision and the front-page story in "The New York Times" about this rocket that is believed to be configured to carry biological and chemical weapons?

AKRAM: I think that all of the evidence will have to be examined by the members of the Security Council. But, the general sense in the council as I see it, is that a peaceful disarmament of Iraq is still possible, that the threat of force has obliged the Iraqi government to cooperate, and that we should utilize this cooperation to the fullest extent to get the disarmament of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction peacefully.

ZAHN: Mr. Ambassador, I don't want to read too much into what you are saying, but when you say peaceful disarmament is possible, that sounds to me like a no vote against the second resolution.

AKRAM: No, I wouldn't say that. I think that you will see that there are many sentiment notice council that the inspections process should be given a little more time, and some clear idea of what needs to be achieved to establish the credibility of the inspections process, and that is not a no word, but that certainly we want implementation of the resolutions of the Security Council,but we would want to exhaust every possible means for a peaceful solution, and I think that is the vocation of the Security Council.

ZAHN: And, Mr. Ambassador, when you say you think inspections need a little more time, I'm not sure if you mean they should go on indefinitely, or would you set a new deadline? AKRAM: Well, I think a number of members in the council are saying, let's set some benchmarks, let's set some achievable tasks for Saddam Hussein to implement within a specific period of time.

Now, obviously that specific period of time and the benchmarks, those have to be negotiated, they have to be identified, and I believe that in that way, we could establish whether actually he's going to do it peacefully or whether the enforcement action will be necessary.

But we have to exhaust all of the possibilities for a peaceful implementation of the resolution, and I think it's a responsibility of the council to try and do so.

ZAHN: Finally this morning, Mr. Ambassador, your country scored a major coup in the arrest of and capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. How optimistic are you that you will get the kind of information you need to capture Osama bin Laden?

AKRAM: I think we have captured -- I think the majority of the Al Qaeda leadership. I think the campaign against terror is being successful. We are succeeding in this campaign.

If Osama bin Laden is alive, I believe we will get him sooner, rather than later.

ZAHN: Ambassador Munir Akram, thank you very much for your time this morning, and good luck with your work you have to get done at the U.N. We'll be watching.

AKRAM: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 10, 2003 - 09:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As the U.S. and Britain battle to win support on second resolution about Iraq, British Prime Minister Tony Blair faces a potential political revolt at home. For more -- and by revolt, we actually mean some political fallout -- and we're going to senior European political correspondent Robin Oakley who has more.
Good morning, Robin.

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN SR. EUROPEAN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.

And the pressures are really building now on Tony Blair. He spent the whole weekend at his country retreat in Checkers, on the phone to different world leaders, trying to win support for the second U.N. Security Council resolution. They wouldn't tell us at Downing Street this morning, as they usually do, who he'd spoken to, so it probably hadn't been successful. Then Tony Blair had the other massive blow that his international development secretary, Claire Short, has said she will resign from his cabinet if he doesn't get the second U.N. Security Council resolution and still goes ahead with military action.

And interestingly, he's spoke to her twice since she announced this in an interview, and she is still sitting there as a member of his cabinet. Normally, anybody with that sort of disloyal behavior would have been out of their job without their feet touching major the ground outside Downing Street. It's a sign of the weakness that he wanted to make a martyr of her. He's already had 122 Labor MPs rebel against his policy on Iraq in a House of Commons vote. An ex-minister is now warning it could be 150, 200 Labor MPs, maybe, rebelling, if he doesn't get the second U.N. Security Council resolution, absolutely crucial to his political future -- Paula.

ZAHN: So, Robin, what else do you think is at stake for the prime minister in the next week or so?

OAKLEY: Well, everything is at stake for the prime minister, according to that second U.N. Security Council resolution. In the country at large, the latest opinion poll here in Britain shows that 77 percent of the populace would go with him on a war against Iraq, provided there was U.N. Security Council backing. Without that backing, only 15 percent of the public will back to Tony Blair.

And the odds are that he doesn't get that resolution through, he's going to have to face a vote in the House of Commons, which he will have to carry only with the support of conservative opposition MPs. So Tony Blair would then be leading a party, more than half of which didn't really agree with him on biggest single political issue of the day. He would be enormously politically weakened, and then gambling his whole future really on the successful and short course of any war against Iraq -- Paula.

ZAHN: Robin Oakley, thanks so much for the update.

Pakistan happens to be one of the Security Council members still on the fence regarding a new U.N. resolution on Iraq. Munir Akram is the ambassador to the United Nations from Pakistan. He joins us this morning from the U.N.

Mr. Ambassador, glad to have you with us this morning. Welcome.

MUNIR AKRAM, PAKISTAN AMB. TO U.N.: Pleasure to be with you.

ZAHN: How is Pakistan likely to vote on this new resolution, the new U.S.-sponsored resolution that would call for this March 17 deadline for disarmament?

AKRAM: Well, we'll have to decide how to vote when the vote is taken The end game is still in play. I think there will be several moves made before the vote. We should have to see how things turn out. We are for a peaceful solution. We have been trying to find middle ground. We are still trying to find middle ground for a peaceful solution.

ZAHN: When you say the end game is in play, I'm curious how much weight the discovery of this drone will have on your decision and the front-page story in "The New York Times" about this rocket that is believed to be configured to carry biological and chemical weapons?

AKRAM: I think that all of the evidence will have to be examined by the members of the Security Council. But, the general sense in the council as I see it, is that a peaceful disarmament of Iraq is still possible, that the threat of force has obliged the Iraqi government to cooperate, and that we should utilize this cooperation to the fullest extent to get the disarmament of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction peacefully.

ZAHN: Mr. Ambassador, I don't want to read too much into what you are saying, but when you say peaceful disarmament is possible, that sounds to me like a no vote against the second resolution.

AKRAM: No, I wouldn't say that. I think that you will see that there are many sentiment notice council that the inspections process should be given a little more time, and some clear idea of what needs to be achieved to establish the credibility of the inspections process, and that is not a no word, but that certainly we want implementation of the resolutions of the Security Council,but we would want to exhaust every possible means for a peaceful solution, and I think that is the vocation of the Security Council.

ZAHN: And, Mr. Ambassador, when you say you think inspections need a little more time, I'm not sure if you mean they should go on indefinitely, or would you set a new deadline? AKRAM: Well, I think a number of members in the council are saying, let's set some benchmarks, let's set some achievable tasks for Saddam Hussein to implement within a specific period of time.

Now, obviously that specific period of time and the benchmarks, those have to be negotiated, they have to be identified, and I believe that in that way, we could establish whether actually he's going to do it peacefully or whether the enforcement action will be necessary.

But we have to exhaust all of the possibilities for a peaceful implementation of the resolution, and I think it's a responsibility of the council to try and do so.

ZAHN: Finally this morning, Mr. Ambassador, your country scored a major coup in the arrest of and capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. How optimistic are you that you will get the kind of information you need to capture Osama bin Laden?

AKRAM: I think we have captured -- I think the majority of the Al Qaeda leadership. I think the campaign against terror is being successful. We are succeeding in this campaign.

If Osama bin Laden is alive, I believe we will get him sooner, rather than later.

ZAHN: Ambassador Munir Akram, thank you very much for your time this morning, and good luck with your work you have to get done at the U.N. We'll be watching.

AKRAM: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com