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American Morning

Interview With Forensic Psychiatrist Helen Morrison

Aired March 14, 2003 - 09:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We turn now to our focus on the Elizabeth Smart story. She is safe at home, but there are still a lot of questions about her disappearance. Why didn't she try to escape? For example, when she was being held so close to home at one point, we are told for many, many months, she was literally four -- a little less than four miles away from her family's home.
Elizabeth's father believes she was brainwashed by her captors, and Salt Lake City police seem to agree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF RICK DINSE, SALT LAKE CITY POLICE: No question that at the time of the abduction, she was in fear and was fearful for a period of time. The other part of the question is whether she had compassion for them. Again, she was psychologically affected by this abduction, and by this imprisonment, and to say that she could be -- walk around in a free area where she could of walked away is to say that she was affected by them psychologically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Elizabeth's family says she's happy to be home, and if you check out these pictures, they certainly seem to indicate that. If she was brainwashed, however, what toll could that trauma take? Joining us now from Chicago, forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Helen Morrison.

Doctor, thanks for joining us this morning. To help our audience better understand her odyssey, we're going to kind of share with our audience now some of what the people who saw her across the country saw when they noticed Elizabeth. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was really quiet, like almost scared. Like she would just look down real quiet. She wouldn't say a word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They both walked behind him, and you could tell he was the leader, and you could tell they just followed him. So they just followed him wherever he went.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: What held her back?

DR. HELEN MORRISON, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Fear, for the first thing. She basically knew that this person had threatened her or her family and could follow through on the threats. Second thing that held her back was that she was isolated. She had no idea of what the reality was. He could have told her that the blue ribbons that she saw, or hearing her name was all a figment of her imagination, her parents didn't care about her, nobody wanted her, she was a bad person, and she began to take on his identity because he was the one who was sheltering her, feeding her, taking care of her, and so her identity became part of his reality. This is not unusual. She didn't do anything wrong. This is not abnormal. This happens with captives, originally, in Stockholm in '73. The bank employees who were held for five and a half days looked like this. So this is a traumatic bonding. The longer the bonding goes on, the more impaired she became. She became essentially paralyzed.

ZAHN: But you also say, pointing out to this Stockholm Syndrome, that it can happen pretty quickly. How many days does it take to wear somebody down?

MORRISON: Well, in Stockholm, it was five and a half days that these adults were isolated. She was a child. She was not a child who was accustomed to a lot of violence or a lot of threats in her life, and so it would have happened with her very quickly. And the fact that she was isolated, if you've ever been in Utah, those mountains are very, very isolated. So she had no way to escape, she had no way to go to someone and say, Help me. By the time she could, she was completely unable to because of the psychological effects on her.

ZAHN: When you talk about how quickly it could happen, her uncle confirmed the fact that she had heard him calling for her, and there was simply no reaction. The other thing that was interesting to share with our audience now is something that Rusty Dornin just reported, and she just interviewed one of the police officers that was standing by to take Elizabeth into custody with the two others, and he said that it took, basically, a long time for her to even admit that she was Elizabeth Smart, and she denied at first that it even was her that they were looking at.

MORRISON: Denial is a defense mechanism. If you're terrorized, you have to deny that you're living in a constant state of terror. And as you begin to identify with your captor, you realize that they are the one that is holding your life in their hands, and you're not going to jeopardize that.

ZAHN: How do you think she's going to do long-term?

MORRISON: Long-term, there are going to be some very serious affects for her. She's not going to be psychiatrically impaired, but the stress that she has been under can lead to long-term effects. Lack of initiative, fearfulness, a repeating or fear that this could happen again, a lot of flashbacks, a lot of difficulties in feeling safe.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate your joining us this morning to try to better understand what she might be enduring. Obviously, the family has made it clear they know she suffered a lot. Her father described it as "hell" at one point, and we can certainly understand why the family doesn't want to share any of those details with us just yet. Dr. Helen Morrison, thank you very much for your time.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 14, 2003 - 09:34   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We turn now to our focus on the Elizabeth Smart story. She is safe at home, but there are still a lot of questions about her disappearance. Why didn't she try to escape? For example, when she was being held so close to home at one point, we are told for many, many months, she was literally four -- a little less than four miles away from her family's home.
Elizabeth's father believes she was brainwashed by her captors, and Salt Lake City police seem to agree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF RICK DINSE, SALT LAKE CITY POLICE: No question that at the time of the abduction, she was in fear and was fearful for a period of time. The other part of the question is whether she had compassion for them. Again, she was psychologically affected by this abduction, and by this imprisonment, and to say that she could be -- walk around in a free area where she could of walked away is to say that she was affected by them psychologically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Elizabeth's family says she's happy to be home, and if you check out these pictures, they certainly seem to indicate that. If she was brainwashed, however, what toll could that trauma take? Joining us now from Chicago, forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Helen Morrison.

Doctor, thanks for joining us this morning. To help our audience better understand her odyssey, we're going to kind of share with our audience now some of what the people who saw her across the country saw when they noticed Elizabeth. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was really quiet, like almost scared. Like she would just look down real quiet. She wouldn't say a word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They both walked behind him, and you could tell he was the leader, and you could tell they just followed him. So they just followed him wherever he went.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: What held her back?

DR. HELEN MORRISON, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Fear, for the first thing. She basically knew that this person had threatened her or her family and could follow through on the threats. Second thing that held her back was that she was isolated. She had no idea of what the reality was. He could have told her that the blue ribbons that she saw, or hearing her name was all a figment of her imagination, her parents didn't care about her, nobody wanted her, she was a bad person, and she began to take on his identity because he was the one who was sheltering her, feeding her, taking care of her, and so her identity became part of his reality. This is not unusual. She didn't do anything wrong. This is not abnormal. This happens with captives, originally, in Stockholm in '73. The bank employees who were held for five and a half days looked like this. So this is a traumatic bonding. The longer the bonding goes on, the more impaired she became. She became essentially paralyzed.

ZAHN: But you also say, pointing out to this Stockholm Syndrome, that it can happen pretty quickly. How many days does it take to wear somebody down?

MORRISON: Well, in Stockholm, it was five and a half days that these adults were isolated. She was a child. She was not a child who was accustomed to a lot of violence or a lot of threats in her life, and so it would have happened with her very quickly. And the fact that she was isolated, if you've ever been in Utah, those mountains are very, very isolated. So she had no way to escape, she had no way to go to someone and say, Help me. By the time she could, she was completely unable to because of the psychological effects on her.

ZAHN: When you talk about how quickly it could happen, her uncle confirmed the fact that she had heard him calling for her, and there was simply no reaction. The other thing that was interesting to share with our audience now is something that Rusty Dornin just reported, and she just interviewed one of the police officers that was standing by to take Elizabeth into custody with the two others, and he said that it took, basically, a long time for her to even admit that she was Elizabeth Smart, and she denied at first that it even was her that they were looking at.

MORRISON: Denial is a defense mechanism. If you're terrorized, you have to deny that you're living in a constant state of terror. And as you begin to identify with your captor, you realize that they are the one that is holding your life in their hands, and you're not going to jeopardize that.

ZAHN: How do you think she's going to do long-term?

MORRISON: Long-term, there are going to be some very serious affects for her. She's not going to be psychiatrically impaired, but the stress that she has been under can lead to long-term effects. Lack of initiative, fearfulness, a repeating or fear that this could happen again, a lot of flashbacks, a lot of difficulties in feeling safe.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate your joining us this morning to try to better understand what she might be enduring. Obviously, the family has made it clear they know she suffered a lot. Her father described it as "hell" at one point, and we can certainly understand why the family doesn't want to share any of those details with us just yet. Dr. Helen Morrison, thank you very much for your time.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com