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American Morning

How Are Coalition Forces Trained to Deal with Capture?

Aired March 24, 2003 - 08:54   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The question we have this morning, how are coalition forces trained to deal with capture? Joining us here is in New York commander Jeff Zaun. He was captured during the first Gulf War. We've often wondered if there was some separation of our family at Ellis Island. Z-A-U-N, Z-A-H-N, we are not related.
CMDR. JEFF ZAUN, POW IN FIRST GULF WAR: Got in different lines.

ZAHN: First off, when you heard the news that here we go on the cycle of American soldiers being taken as POWs, I know it didn't come as any great surprise to you, but what is your chief concern at this hour about their welfare?

ZAUN: The chief concern is who they're held by. The treatment varies. We switch from secret police or intelligence service to the army to the secret police, and the armed forces seem to treat us much better. Having said that, you know, there is a reasonable chance that we'll break Baghdad soon, and that's what brings them home, when you win the conflict, that brings them home.

ZAHN: So in the meantime, within the context of what you've been through and the Iraqis saying they will abide by the Geneva Conventions, which they did not do during their captivity, what might these soldiers be put up with?

ZAUN: Well, they haven't abided by the Geneva Conventions in this conflict either. They're not supposed to be on television.

Having said that, it depends who they're held with, and I can't tell from my vantage. If they're held by the intelligence service, they're likely to be exploited. The experience is survivable. You come home. I'm not dead yet. I'm standing, sitting here right in front of you.

So, you know, there is a good chance we'll see them again. If they're held by the army, I would say that their treatment would be pretty standard. The army will be -- the army should be going off a script from the Geneva Convention. That with my experience.

ZAHN: What happened to you?

ZAUN: I was shot down first day of the war, caught by the air force, roughed up a little bit in the capture, but then again, in a capture, they're as scared as I am. Then I was treated' air force infirmary at the airbase I was trying to bomb. They loaded me on a jeep and transported me a pretty good ways, 300 miles to Baghdad. Again, still held by the air force for another half day. ZAHN: Did they give you food or water during that period of time?

ZAUN: I can't remember. It was pretty much a blur. I'm sure they must have given me water, or I'd have had some problems. Then turned over to the secret police. And there was some treatment that was fairly harsh, which given the fact there are fellows over there now in custody, I probably shouldn't go into it.

ZAHN: When you see these pictures of yourself, do you even recognize that man?

ZAUN: Sure, it was Jeff Zaun on a bad day.

ZAHN: A very bad day.

ZAUN: Yes.

ZAHN: A number of bad days. Help us better understand. We know the amount of training varies from branch of the military to branch of the military. How did the training kick in in your case, and what was the most difficult part of the captivity where the training didn't sort of fill in the gaps, or did it?

ZAUN: I'll answer the second question first. The one thing is in training, you know they're not going to shoot you. The training helps make sense of what's going on. I kind of knew what they were getting at. I knew what they were trying to do, and I was taught what they would try to do, and I could see them following their script. On the other hand, the torture you're subjected to in training, it actually is pretty severe, you know, except for being able to simulate the threat of death, it's pretty realistic.

Interrogation that we're subjected to in training is actually much better than the interrogation I received from the Iraqis. In other words, the Iraqis weren't able -- I could see them going down a blind alley, and I just let them go. But in that respect, the training helped out a lot. That said, there is some disorientation at first.

ZAHN: We appreciate you coming by to describe your captivity, and we wish you continued good luck.

ZAUN: Sure.

ZAHN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 24, 2003 - 08:54   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The question we have this morning, how are coalition forces trained to deal with capture? Joining us here is in New York commander Jeff Zaun. He was captured during the first Gulf War. We've often wondered if there was some separation of our family at Ellis Island. Z-A-U-N, Z-A-H-N, we are not related.
CMDR. JEFF ZAUN, POW IN FIRST GULF WAR: Got in different lines.

ZAHN: First off, when you heard the news that here we go on the cycle of American soldiers being taken as POWs, I know it didn't come as any great surprise to you, but what is your chief concern at this hour about their welfare?

ZAUN: The chief concern is who they're held by. The treatment varies. We switch from secret police or intelligence service to the army to the secret police, and the armed forces seem to treat us much better. Having said that, you know, there is a reasonable chance that we'll break Baghdad soon, and that's what brings them home, when you win the conflict, that brings them home.

ZAHN: So in the meantime, within the context of what you've been through and the Iraqis saying they will abide by the Geneva Conventions, which they did not do during their captivity, what might these soldiers be put up with?

ZAUN: Well, they haven't abided by the Geneva Conventions in this conflict either. They're not supposed to be on television.

Having said that, it depends who they're held with, and I can't tell from my vantage. If they're held by the intelligence service, they're likely to be exploited. The experience is survivable. You come home. I'm not dead yet. I'm standing, sitting here right in front of you.

So, you know, there is a good chance we'll see them again. If they're held by the army, I would say that their treatment would be pretty standard. The army will be -- the army should be going off a script from the Geneva Convention. That with my experience.

ZAHN: What happened to you?

ZAUN: I was shot down first day of the war, caught by the air force, roughed up a little bit in the capture, but then again, in a capture, they're as scared as I am. Then I was treated' air force infirmary at the airbase I was trying to bomb. They loaded me on a jeep and transported me a pretty good ways, 300 miles to Baghdad. Again, still held by the air force for another half day. ZAHN: Did they give you food or water during that period of time?

ZAUN: I can't remember. It was pretty much a blur. I'm sure they must have given me water, or I'd have had some problems. Then turned over to the secret police. And there was some treatment that was fairly harsh, which given the fact there are fellows over there now in custody, I probably shouldn't go into it.

ZAHN: When you see these pictures of yourself, do you even recognize that man?

ZAUN: Sure, it was Jeff Zaun on a bad day.

ZAHN: A very bad day.

ZAUN: Yes.

ZAHN: A number of bad days. Help us better understand. We know the amount of training varies from branch of the military to branch of the military. How did the training kick in in your case, and what was the most difficult part of the captivity where the training didn't sort of fill in the gaps, or did it?

ZAUN: I'll answer the second question first. The one thing is in training, you know they're not going to shoot you. The training helps make sense of what's going on. I kind of knew what they were getting at. I knew what they were trying to do, and I was taught what they would try to do, and I could see them following their script. On the other hand, the torture you're subjected to in training, it actually is pretty severe, you know, except for being able to simulate the threat of death, it's pretty realistic.

Interrogation that we're subjected to in training is actually much better than the interrogation I received from the Iraqis. In other words, the Iraqis weren't able -- I could see them going down a blind alley, and I just let them go. But in that respect, the training helped out a lot. That said, there is some disorientation at first.

ZAHN: We appreciate you coming by to describe your captivity, and we wish you continued good luck.

ZAUN: Sure.

ZAHN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com