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American Morning

Iraqi's Republican Guard Medina Division

Aired March 25, 2003 - 07:41   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As Christiane talked about the kind of resistance that coalition forces are being met with, it's interesting to note that the British prime minister says he sees no threat of coalition forces being overstretched.
It's also interesting to note, Bill, that the prime minister downplayed the kind of resistance that's being encountered. And in two different parts of the news conferences -- or conference, he made two specific references. One saying "It is taking shape as we thought it would." The second time, "This scenario is what we had expected."

That's the latest footnote from Tony Blair's news conference.

Back to you now -- Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Paula, the other thing he talked about was that two-pronged approach, one from the southeast of Baghdad and one from the southwest of Baghdad, and in that southwest location of where it's largely believed this Medina Division of the Republican Guard on behalf of Iraq is now positioned. They have a storied history within the Iraqi military going back for the past 20 years, said to be very formidable, perhaps the most well-equipped of any Republican Guard division.

Ken Pollack knows that all too well. He's the author of "The Threatening Storm: The Case Against Saddam Hussein," and also from the Saban Center in Washington, D.C., back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Ken, welcome back.

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Tell us why the Medina is considered to be the best, if not one of the best, probably the best division within the Republican Guard.

POLLACK: Well, Bill, the Medina is one of the two oldest of Iraq's Republican Guard armored divisions, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Morahabi (ph) Division, which is located northwest of Baghdad right now. Those are probably the two best divisions in Iraq. They've got a very long history, as you pointed out.

They were formed in about 1986. They fought in all of the major battles at the end of the Iran-Iraq war. They were the ones who bore the brunt of the fighting when the Iranians attacked Basra. And in 1987, they were the ones who bore the brunt of the fighting when the Iraqi army defeated the Iranians. They were the ones who led the invasion of Kuwait in 1991 -- or excuse me -- in 1990.

And it's important to note that in 1991, U.S. military personnel going up against the Republican Guard, we fought the Medina Division in a battle that was called the "Battle of Medina Ridge," when our 1st Armored Division went up against a brigade of the -- in fact, the same 2nd Brigade of the Medina Division that Walt Rodgers' 7th Calvary Regiment is going up against right now. Fought them in a battle all afternoon long, and American personnel taking part in that.

Combat veterans from Vietnam all said that it was the toughest fire fight that they had ever encountered. It was harder than anything they ever fought in Vietnam, because the Republican Guards, even though they weren't very good soldiers, would not stop. They wouldn't stop fighting. U.S. forces would blow up their armored personnel carrier, and you'd have two or three charred Iraqis fall out of the back of it and start firing at the U.S. tanks with machine guns, RPGs, whatever they could.

HEMMER: Yes, now, Ken, listen, there are a lot of different factors today as opposed to 1991. That was wide open desert, we are told now a heavily vegetated area southwest of Baghdad. We're also told based on some reports that perhaps they're using the same tactics the Serbs used in Kosovo. In other words, putting their tanks, their 272 tanks under individual trees, hiding them out in storage areas as well.

When you consider those factors right now, and also think of the history of this fighting force, what do you do right now from a military strategy in order to take this unit on?

POLLACK: Well, I think that what the U.S. is doing right now is probably the best thing. First, we're in the middle of a sandstorm, so that's going to make it very difficult. In a sandstorm, it reduces our advantages even further. Our great advantages over the Republican Guard are on maneuverability and our long-range fire, which they don't have either of those two things. The sandstorm takes both of those things away from us.

So the best thing to do is to wait out the sandstorm, and then try to soften up the Medina as best we can, using air power, artillery and helicopters. And then go in fully with a combined arms team -- infantry, armor, artillery, helicopters and air.

What we've found time and again is that the Iraqis cannot handle that kind of a full brunt of force. They are very good in these kinds of little fights, where they can dig themselves in and take pot shots at U.S. forces. They're tenacious defenders, but we can put together a combined arms force that forces them to react in ways that they didn't plan to before when we can start flanking them, and that will be another important element. That's when the Republican Guards do worst.

HEMMER: Ken, we're already hearing from the Pentagon this could be one of the key battles, if not the key battle, today. Tell us why.

POLLACK: Well, as I said, the Medina is one of the best divisions in the Iraqi armed forces. And the expectation is, the hope is that if the U.S. can just crack the Medina wide open and just cause it to fall apart that this will send a very powerful signal to other Republican Guard divisions that it's simply not worth resisting U.S. forces.

If they see the Medina overrun easily by U.S. forces in a day or so, that will say to the rest of them hopefully that fighting the Americans just isn't worth it, and hopefully that will cause the rest of the Republicans Guard defense around Baghdad to start to crumble.

HEMMER: All right, Ken Pollack, author of "The Threatening Storm," Saban Center in Washington, D.C.

One other footnote on this -- Ken, we'll talk to you later today -- said to be Medina comprised of about 10,000 troops, possibly 250 tanks, possibly 250 armored personnel carriers, but certainly this is something right now the Pentagon is trying to get a much better view out from the air. But obviously are quite difficult today given the weather conditions here throughout the Persian Gulf.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.






Aired March 25, 2003 - 07:41   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As Christiane talked about the kind of resistance that coalition forces are being met with, it's interesting to note that the British prime minister says he sees no threat of coalition forces being overstretched.
It's also interesting to note, Bill, that the prime minister downplayed the kind of resistance that's being encountered. And in two different parts of the news conferences -- or conference, he made two specific references. One saying "It is taking shape as we thought it would." The second time, "This scenario is what we had expected."

That's the latest footnote from Tony Blair's news conference.

Back to you now -- Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Paula, the other thing he talked about was that two-pronged approach, one from the southeast of Baghdad and one from the southwest of Baghdad, and in that southwest location of where it's largely believed this Medina Division of the Republican Guard on behalf of Iraq is now positioned. They have a storied history within the Iraqi military going back for the past 20 years, said to be very formidable, perhaps the most well-equipped of any Republican Guard division.

Ken Pollack knows that all too well. He's the author of "The Threatening Storm: The Case Against Saddam Hussein," and also from the Saban Center in Washington, D.C., back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Ken, welcome back.

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Tell us why the Medina is considered to be the best, if not one of the best, probably the best division within the Republican Guard.

POLLACK: Well, Bill, the Medina is one of the two oldest of Iraq's Republican Guard armored divisions, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Morahabi (ph) Division, which is located northwest of Baghdad right now. Those are probably the two best divisions in Iraq. They've got a very long history, as you pointed out.

They were formed in about 1986. They fought in all of the major battles at the end of the Iran-Iraq war. They were the ones who bore the brunt of the fighting when the Iranians attacked Basra. And in 1987, they were the ones who bore the brunt of the fighting when the Iraqi army defeated the Iranians. They were the ones who led the invasion of Kuwait in 1991 -- or excuse me -- in 1990.

And it's important to note that in 1991, U.S. military personnel going up against the Republican Guard, we fought the Medina Division in a battle that was called the "Battle of Medina Ridge," when our 1st Armored Division went up against a brigade of the -- in fact, the same 2nd Brigade of the Medina Division that Walt Rodgers' 7th Calvary Regiment is going up against right now. Fought them in a battle all afternoon long, and American personnel taking part in that.

Combat veterans from Vietnam all said that it was the toughest fire fight that they had ever encountered. It was harder than anything they ever fought in Vietnam, because the Republican Guards, even though they weren't very good soldiers, would not stop. They wouldn't stop fighting. U.S. forces would blow up their armored personnel carrier, and you'd have two or three charred Iraqis fall out of the back of it and start firing at the U.S. tanks with machine guns, RPGs, whatever they could.

HEMMER: Yes, now, Ken, listen, there are a lot of different factors today as opposed to 1991. That was wide open desert, we are told now a heavily vegetated area southwest of Baghdad. We're also told based on some reports that perhaps they're using the same tactics the Serbs used in Kosovo. In other words, putting their tanks, their 272 tanks under individual trees, hiding them out in storage areas as well.

When you consider those factors right now, and also think of the history of this fighting force, what do you do right now from a military strategy in order to take this unit on?

POLLACK: Well, I think that what the U.S. is doing right now is probably the best thing. First, we're in the middle of a sandstorm, so that's going to make it very difficult. In a sandstorm, it reduces our advantages even further. Our great advantages over the Republican Guard are on maneuverability and our long-range fire, which they don't have either of those two things. The sandstorm takes both of those things away from us.

So the best thing to do is to wait out the sandstorm, and then try to soften up the Medina as best we can, using air power, artillery and helicopters. And then go in fully with a combined arms team -- infantry, armor, artillery, helicopters and air.

What we've found time and again is that the Iraqis cannot handle that kind of a full brunt of force. They are very good in these kinds of little fights, where they can dig themselves in and take pot shots at U.S. forces. They're tenacious defenders, but we can put together a combined arms force that forces them to react in ways that they didn't plan to before when we can start flanking them, and that will be another important element. That's when the Republican Guards do worst.

HEMMER: Ken, we're already hearing from the Pentagon this could be one of the key battles, if not the key battle, today. Tell us why.

POLLACK: Well, as I said, the Medina is one of the best divisions in the Iraqi armed forces. And the expectation is, the hope is that if the U.S. can just crack the Medina wide open and just cause it to fall apart that this will send a very powerful signal to other Republican Guard divisions that it's simply not worth resisting U.S. forces.

If they see the Medina overrun easily by U.S. forces in a day or so, that will say to the rest of them hopefully that fighting the Americans just isn't worth it, and hopefully that will cause the rest of the Republicans Guard defense around Baghdad to start to crumble.

HEMMER: All right, Ken Pollack, author of "The Threatening Storm," Saban Center in Washington, D.C.

One other footnote on this -- Ken, we'll talk to you later today -- said to be Medina comprised of about 10,000 troops, possibly 250 tanks, possibly 250 armored personnel carriers, but certainly this is something right now the Pentagon is trying to get a much better view out from the air. But obviously are quite difficult today given the weather conditions here throughout the Persian Gulf.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.