Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Aired March 28, 2003 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Leon Harris here at the CNN Center in Atlanta with a look at what's happening at this hour. Three U.S. Marine infantry battalions are working now to secure the southern city of An Nasiriyah.
Meanwhile, a search is underway now for 12 U.S. Marines in southern Iraq. Military officials say the 12 went missing this week during clashes near Nasiriyah. Eleven of them are stationed at Camp LeJeune in North Carolina. Nasiriyah has been the scene of some intense fighting in recent days.
A British drone has gone down near Basra. The vehicle is called a Phoenix and is used to identify targets. U.S. military says it lost a Predator drone yesterday.
FBI Director Robert Mueller says interviews with thousands of Iraqis in the U.S. could benefit the military campaign overseas. Mueller told a congressional committee yesterday that the bureau's interview program is providing some valuable information about possible targets for coalition troops in Iraq. The FBI says these interviews are voluntary.
And one item from other news to report this morning. Some 3000 of the nation's airport security screeners could be getting pink slips as early as next week. The government now is reassessing the size of the 54,000-member force. The head of the Transportation Security Administration expects that one screener out of 18 will be laid off.
Coming up, more troops heading for the Persian Gulf. We'll tell you the latest about latest deployment and a vote expected by the U.N. today on the oil-for-food program. More on that to come as well.
Plus, civilians under siege in Basra. All of that and much more ahead as CNN's coverage of the war in Iraq continues right now.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thanks for being with us this morning. Welcome. I'm Paula Zahn in New York. President Bush is expressing some frustration on how the war in Iraq is being characterized in the media. On this, the eighth day of the ground offensive, officials tell CNN the president says the war is -- quote - "going well and that press skepticism is silly." But there is some skepticism out there. While U.S. troops engage Iraqi forces along the central corridor of Iraq, there's word from one of the commanding general that Iraqi tactics are not what the United States war-gamed against. Central Command in Qatar took questions on this particular comment this morning. We will be talking about that a lot throughout the morning. Also overnight, Baghdad was hit by the heaviest bombardment so far in terms of the destructive power of the bombs. Two bunker- busters were dropped on a communications center. At least one of the bombs was a 4500-pound GBU-37, one of the largest in the U.S. arsenal.
Right now, it's time to bring in my colleague Bill Hemmer, standing by in Kuwait. Good morning Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Paula, hello again and welcome to Friday yet again here in Kuwait City. Want to let you know what's happening here throughout the country of Kuwait. About six weeks ago, the schools went essentially on a very long vacation, a six-week vacation with the events brewing to the north. We were told they would all go back to school tomorrow, on Saturday. But that's been postponed for everyone except for the high schools. So your elementary school, your junior highs, your preschools, all those kids will stay home for an undetermined amount of time, so now they are extending that six-week vacation to a point that we do not know right now.
Meanwhile, CNN's Christiane Amanpour with British forces near Basra earlier today, then she was reporting that Iraqi militia opened fire on civilians trying to flee the city and forcing them back into town. It is not known if there are any casualties outside Basra.
U.S. Central Command in Qatar says it has now seen indications that Iraq might use chemical weapons once the coalition forces come within a certain distance of Baghdad. The military calls these trip wires. So far, no evidence that Iraqi troops have been ordered to use a chemical weapon.
The British ship, Sir Gallahad, has finally docked at Umm Qasr, the only port for Iraq. Two hundred tons of humanitarian supplies on board. The ship had been delayed for days throughout the entire week first because of delays in securing the port, then later because of the fear of land mines and sea mines - excuse me - they're floating in the water are also being placed on the bottom of that waterway. They think they have it secure, at least about 100-yard stretch anyway, so they have a channel in which they can access that port. It happened live and you saw it earlier here live on CNN. More in a moment in Kuwait, Paula. Back to you now.
ZAHN: Thanks Bill. Back to the White House now where John King is standing by. John, what's the latest from there? Good morning.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Paula, the president's job is to be the commander-in-chief and in many ways, also the messenger-in-chief. It is his job to take the lead in explaining the war and its progress or lack thereof to the American people, in laying out the expectations for the conflict. We will see more of that later today. Mr. Bush has members of veterans' organizations coming to the White House - the VFW, the American Legion, and other veterans' groups.
He will address them in the Rose Garden and we are told he will yet again say that the toughest battles of this war are yet to come and that this will be a war of unlimited -- undetermined - excuse me -- duration. And as that plays out here, some frustration being voiced here at the White House. A senior official this morning saying that the president simply thinks the news media has been silly in its questioning so far in raising skepticism about the war plan or in raising questions about the tactics.
The official saying - quote - "I think it's fair to say some there's some level of frustration with the Press Corps. He thinks it's silly, not borne out by the facts." This, of course, because the White House says we are just eight days into the ground campaign, nine days into military action, and you have a great deal of skepticism being raised at the briefings and in the newspapers and television reports about the war strategy. Officials here are drawing a direct comparison to the Kosovo campaign and the Clinton administration, the Afghanistan campaign, in more recent memory, saying that early in those conflicts, people raised questions and it turned out the strategies were right in the end.
Bush administration officials insisting that is where we will be a week or so from now, but they say the president is frustrated. We saw a bit of that yesterday at his news conference with the British Prime Minister Tony Blair. They cut back the number of questions they were planning to take from reporters. Mr. Bush was clearly exasperated at the questions about the timeline saying this is not about how long it takes, it is about removing Saddam Hussein from power. A bit of frustration evident as the president pounded the lectern at one point. So, one of the more interesting sub plots as the president tries to manage the public's expectations as the mounting tensions here at the White House and at the other briefings at the Pentagon and in Doha, tensions and frustration with the Press Corps -- Paula.
ZAHN: But John, let's try to separate two things here for a moment. It's one thing for the press to ask tough questions. Isn't it true that one of the president's own generals, Lieutenant General William Wallace, the commander of the Army forces in the Persian Gulf raised skepticism by saying rather pointedly in "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times" this morning that these irregular forces they're confronting are not what they war-gamed against. He essentially said we knew they were out there, but we weren't particularly sure how they were going to fight.
KING: It's exactly right that the general said that and we asked that of the senior official this morning and that is when the answer came back that the president thought our questions were sometimes silly. So, there is a natural tension, whenever there is a war underway, there is a natural - well there's a natural tension on any day between the media and the White House, but more of a tension, of course, when you have such a sensitive operation underway and this administration, I think, is in trying to manage the public's expectations is trying to push us back a little bit, if you will, and urge us to be a little bit more patient.
The White House believes this has been cast as David versus Goliath, if you will, and that the president has been -- they say the president has been clear that this could take some time, although this morning, another quote came up at the briefing. Vice President Cheney not all that long ago said he believed the combat would take only weeks, not months -- Paula.
ZAHN: John King, thanks so much. We'll be checking in with you throughout the morning. Bill, just finally for folks that might have missed that briefing a little bit earlier on this morning, when asked very pointed questions about whether the government had underestimated the strength of these troops, he acknowledged that you do get, in his words, a different view from planet earth, referring to folks like Lieutenant General William Wallace who are on the ground now in Iraq.
HEMMER: Yes, very true, and as we pointed out earlier today, Paula, there are more coming with about 30,000 on the way that were announced yesterday and about 100,000 to follow on in the weeks after that. When they arrive and when you get a full 130,000 new complement of soldiers and troops in the area, though, remains to be seen. Listen, it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort to move that amount of military hardware and personnel halfway around the world.
Back in the region right now, Paula, earlier today, we are monitoring the Iraqi information minister. He came out yet again in Baghdad briefing reporters there in the Iraqi capital about the number of casualties the Iraqis say right now and also their position as to how things are going. Watching this as well is Rym Brahimi. She's live in Amman, Jordan and joins us now for an update. Rym, hello to you.
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you Bill. Indeed, the information minister briefing reporters in Baghdad. He said that since the beginning of the campaign launched by the United States and Britain, 800 people had been injured and some 230 killed or martyred was the word he used. Now, he also accused the U.S. and Britain of deliberately targeting civilian areas and of committing a crime, he said the Iraqis would teach them a lesson they would never forget. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER (through translator): We will pursue them as war criminals. And we will pursue them in all ways we can, and we will pursue them everywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAHIMI: The minister also refers to the overnight bombings and this morning's bombings in Baghdad, a heavy intense night of bombing from what we know. The U.S. and Britain also seemed to have targeted some international communications buildings, some government buildings. On the whole from Baghdad's casualties, the minister said 97 people were injured overnight and - 92 people, rather, and seven people killed in those attacks.
Now, as you can imagine, Bill, all this campaign is not going down very well in the region. The region -- people in the region are very pro Iraqi. They don't necessarily support President Saddam Hussein, but definitely they feel a lot of sympathy for the Iraqi people. That and many fears as well as to what the region may turn into once the United States have finished their campaign.
You see here a magazine called (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the Arab nation. An article here about Egyptian intellectuals who think that this war will actually lead to an occupation of the entire Arab region by the United States. And then another significant little cartoon here, if I can show you this. The U.S. here, a huge bomb coming down on this little person who's the Middle East, and he's holding an apple that says Iraq. So they're trying to target Iraq, but how can they not affect the rest of the region.
And then, if we have that other cartoon, Bill, I think it's quite significant. It will show you the bitterness of the Arab region. Another cartoon that this is from a newspaper here in Jordan. The United States has a date with death and death says you ask me out on a date and then you don't even want to look me in the eyes. A bit of criticism there of how the U.S. has carried out this campaign until now - Bill.
HEMMER: Back to the briefing, Rym, quickly. The bunker-busters dropped in central Baghdad last night, one well over two tons in weight. Much reaction today regarding that or not?
BRAHIMI: Well, this is where the information minister said that the United States was using this proportionate force saying -- and again, saying -- accusing the U.S. of attacking deliberately civilian areas. And then he also questioned what was happening. He said that they're attacking government buildings. This is in reference also to the area that was hit, which was also an area where the information ministry and the foreign ministry are. They're not very far apart in Baghdad.
He said do they think that there are no civilians that go into those government buildings, that there are no people who go and conduct their daily business in those buildings? So you see he said they are targeting civilians. And then he also pointed to other regions in Iraq in the south namely in the city of Najaf.
He said that they were -- he said the U.S. also used cluster bombs and he said that was a terrible thing to do. He also said very defiantly that the United States claimed that they had taken over Umm Qasr, the port in the south and he said that's not true. Umm Qasr is still under Iraqi control - Bill.
HEMMER: Rym, thanks for the update. Rym Brahimi, again, watching things in Amman, Jordan. Now, Paula (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
ZAHN: Thanks so much Bill. Coming right out of the break, we pose the question what is Dr. Germ up to? At least that's what some folks call this woman you're going to see shortly in the videotape right there to the right of one of Saddam Hussein's advisors. She was seen in an Iraqi TV broadcast yesterday meeting with a number of officials. And we'll explain on the other side what we think this means. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ZAHN: Welcome back. As we're moving up on about 15 minutes before the hour on this Friday morning, a key advisor to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is now stepping down. Richard Perle is resigning as chairman of the Defense Policy Board. He says he doesn't want controversy about his business dealings to distract from the war effort. Perle has been criticized because of ties to a company that lobbies and the Pentagon and which could profit from the war. Perle also caused a stir when he lashed out at a reporter who questioned his ethics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD PERLE, DEFENSE POLICY BOARD: Look, Sy Hersh is the closest thing American journalism has to a terrorist, frankly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Though, Perle will not be the chairman, he will stay on as a member of the Defense Policy Board.
An American educated female Iraqi germ warfare expert was shown meeting with Saddam Hussein in a tape played on Iraqi TV yesterday. David Ensor is in Washington and he has more details on who she is. Good morning David. I guess my first question is we know when this broadcast was made or when it was taped?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: We don't know. U.S. officials do not know whether this is an old tape being replayed for whatever reason or whether it was a meeting that happened yesterday or the day before, but the lady you see there in the panning by is Dr. Huda Ammash. She is an American educated microbiologist and U.S. intelligence officials say she played an important role in the mid '90s in the rebuilding of Iraq's surreptitious biological weapons program.
She's, as I say, American educated. She has a PhD. from the University of Missouri and what U.S. officials say is they're not clear whether this is a meeting that just occurred or whether the tape was played for some other reason. So, it's unclear to them whether her presence at the meeting signifies perhaps some intention by the Iraqis to use biological weapons during this war or whether she was there in her role as a senior Baath party leader, that another role that she also plays.
So, they are intrigued. It's a little disturbing, a little chilling to see her there but, at the same time, it may not have any particular significance - Paula.
ZAHN: And David, you have spent a lot of time with the folks analyzing all of these various tapes of Saddam Hussein we've seen. Is there any latest word on his status? I think the last time you and I spoke about it in depth, there were reports that he had been taken from that compound that was hit in a stretcher. What are we saying here? What are we hearing now?
ENSOR: I'm afraid still the same, which is that, yes, there was one piece of intelligence suggesting he had been injured and might have been taken out on a stretcher. There were equally intelligence given equal weight, though, that suggests he wasn't hurt at all and that suggested he might be dead. Now, the consensus at U.S. intelligence seems to be that he is very much alive and still in charge in Baghdad, although he's lost a lot of his communications capabilities and isn't as able to command the forces underneath him as he once was.
There is belief that he may, in fact, be using old-fashioned couriers and letters and envelopes to send commands to various troops in outlying areas since much of his communications has been degraded and what's left is being actively pursued by U.S. intelligence and the military - Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, David Ensor, absolutely fascinating. Back to Kuwait City and Bill - Bill.
HEMMER: Paula, these disturbing reports in around the city of Basra where a number of people said to be in the thousands trying to leave and flee that town were fired on by Iraqi soldiers, possibly paramilitaries. We heard this word earlier today. In a moment, we have one of our own reporters embedded with the British. We will check in live and find out what's happening on the ground there. Back in a moment with that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Welcome back. Moving up on 10 minutes before the hour. There is a report that thousands of Iraqi civilians have been trying to leave Basra in southern Iraq, but they are being forced back into the city by militia forces loyal to Saddam Hussein. They've actually been shot upon by those forces. Diana Muriel is with British forces near Basra this morning. She joins us by videophone.
Diana, good morning. I understand you just listened to a briefing. What is the latest?
DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Paula. I've just returned from a military briefing, which told me, gave me the details of what happened this morning. It was about 9:00 local time when more than 1,000 women and children with men who appeared to be escorting their families tried to make it across the bridge. This is one of the main bridges leading into Basra, and they tried to make it from the north side of the river, which is militia-controlled still to the south side where British forces are waiting.
As the main body of people came across the bridge, they were fired on by a 4-by-4 vehicle, four-wheel drive vehicle, which drove onto the bridge and on it was mounted a machine gun and it was firing at people in the crowd. They also came under mortar attack from buildings on the north side of the river, the militia-controlled side of the river.
People, of course, fleeing in panic. Two hundred or 300 or so made it back to the north side. The others made it across the bridge to safety in the south. The British brought on a Challenger 2 tank onto the bridge and fired at that 4-by-4 vehicle. They killed three enemy who were in that vehicle and mounted on that vehicle and they believe that these are Fedayeen. They believe that these are militia. They were dressed in civilian clothes. Some of them had (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on, I understand, and these appear to be part of the groups that are controlling Basra at the moment.
Over the past few days, refugees have been trying to get out of the city across these bridges and they have been attacked before, but this seems to have been the biggest incident that the British forces have witnessed in the past few days. The British forces were able to take one casualty, one young woman who was, I'm not sure whether she was hit by machine gunfire or by -- shot from the mortar round. She had various fractures, but I understand that she's in a stable condition.
The refugees that came across, Paula, are now being talked to by British military, being debriefed as to the conditions in Basra, but I have no details of that Paula.
ZAHN: Diana, am I hearing you correctly that only one person was injured in spite of this barrage of fire out of the 1,000 trying to make it across that bridge?
MURIEL: No...
(CROSSTALK)
MURIEL: No, several people, several people were injured. Only one casualty was recovered inside a British tank that went out to get her. This woman was clearly in a lot of difficulty. Others received various injuries and we don't know what happened to the people who went back to the north side, of course. But no, there were several people wounded in this incident.
One other thing that's very important about this that the British (UNINTELLIGIBLE), as I said, they were women and children mostly, but they were escorted by what appeared to be their husbands. And later on in the day, it appears that most of the men that were seen coming across the bridge have returned to the north side -- Paula.
ZAHN: And that is the side controlled by the militia, right?
MURIEL: That's correct. That's correct. There are Fedayeen groups, militia - several militia groups operating in Basra. I understand from various British military sources that they've been terrifying the local population there. There has been this popular uprising over the past few days, which has been stamped on very viciously by the Fedayeen, by this local militia and it's still a very fragile situation north of - in the city.
ZAHN: Diane Muriel, thank you for that update, and disturbing as it is, Bill, we had been told about how these irregular forces often wear civilian clothes to get their work done. I guess this is probably the most detailed account we've had of what happened to these 1,000 women and children trying to cross that bridge to safety on the other side where the British forces were. And I guess she made it quite clear they were escorted by their husbands and many of them turned back and went to militia-controlled territory.
HEMMER: Makes it -- underlines and highlights the fact, too, what the American military has been saying about the civilian clothes that are worn by a number of these paramilitaries, not only in Basra, Paula, but also in Nasiriyah and other locations that we've talked about. It's going to make it a very confusing situation, too. And if you listen to the Marines and the members of the U.S. Army and how they describe the difficulties and the challenge in trying to face this.
Aired March 28, 2003 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Leon Harris here at the CNN Center in Atlanta with a look at what's happening at this hour. Three U.S. Marine infantry battalions are working now to secure the southern city of An Nasiriyah.
Meanwhile, a search is underway now for 12 U.S. Marines in southern Iraq. Military officials say the 12 went missing this week during clashes near Nasiriyah. Eleven of them are stationed at Camp LeJeune in North Carolina. Nasiriyah has been the scene of some intense fighting in recent days.
A British drone has gone down near Basra. The vehicle is called a Phoenix and is used to identify targets. U.S. military says it lost a Predator drone yesterday.
FBI Director Robert Mueller says interviews with thousands of Iraqis in the U.S. could benefit the military campaign overseas. Mueller told a congressional committee yesterday that the bureau's interview program is providing some valuable information about possible targets for coalition troops in Iraq. The FBI says these interviews are voluntary.
And one item from other news to report this morning. Some 3000 of the nation's airport security screeners could be getting pink slips as early as next week. The government now is reassessing the size of the 54,000-member force. The head of the Transportation Security Administration expects that one screener out of 18 will be laid off.
Coming up, more troops heading for the Persian Gulf. We'll tell you the latest about latest deployment and a vote expected by the U.N. today on the oil-for-food program. More on that to come as well.
Plus, civilians under siege in Basra. All of that and much more ahead as CNN's coverage of the war in Iraq continues right now.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thanks for being with us this morning. Welcome. I'm Paula Zahn in New York. President Bush is expressing some frustration on how the war in Iraq is being characterized in the media. On this, the eighth day of the ground offensive, officials tell CNN the president says the war is -- quote - "going well and that press skepticism is silly." But there is some skepticism out there. While U.S. troops engage Iraqi forces along the central corridor of Iraq, there's word from one of the commanding general that Iraqi tactics are not what the United States war-gamed against. Central Command in Qatar took questions on this particular comment this morning. We will be talking about that a lot throughout the morning. Also overnight, Baghdad was hit by the heaviest bombardment so far in terms of the destructive power of the bombs. Two bunker- busters were dropped on a communications center. At least one of the bombs was a 4500-pound GBU-37, one of the largest in the U.S. arsenal.
Right now, it's time to bring in my colleague Bill Hemmer, standing by in Kuwait. Good morning Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Paula, hello again and welcome to Friday yet again here in Kuwait City. Want to let you know what's happening here throughout the country of Kuwait. About six weeks ago, the schools went essentially on a very long vacation, a six-week vacation with the events brewing to the north. We were told they would all go back to school tomorrow, on Saturday. But that's been postponed for everyone except for the high schools. So your elementary school, your junior highs, your preschools, all those kids will stay home for an undetermined amount of time, so now they are extending that six-week vacation to a point that we do not know right now.
Meanwhile, CNN's Christiane Amanpour with British forces near Basra earlier today, then she was reporting that Iraqi militia opened fire on civilians trying to flee the city and forcing them back into town. It is not known if there are any casualties outside Basra.
U.S. Central Command in Qatar says it has now seen indications that Iraq might use chemical weapons once the coalition forces come within a certain distance of Baghdad. The military calls these trip wires. So far, no evidence that Iraqi troops have been ordered to use a chemical weapon.
The British ship, Sir Gallahad, has finally docked at Umm Qasr, the only port for Iraq. Two hundred tons of humanitarian supplies on board. The ship had been delayed for days throughout the entire week first because of delays in securing the port, then later because of the fear of land mines and sea mines - excuse me - they're floating in the water are also being placed on the bottom of that waterway. They think they have it secure, at least about 100-yard stretch anyway, so they have a channel in which they can access that port. It happened live and you saw it earlier here live on CNN. More in a moment in Kuwait, Paula. Back to you now.
ZAHN: Thanks Bill. Back to the White House now where John King is standing by. John, what's the latest from there? Good morning.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Paula, the president's job is to be the commander-in-chief and in many ways, also the messenger-in-chief. It is his job to take the lead in explaining the war and its progress or lack thereof to the American people, in laying out the expectations for the conflict. We will see more of that later today. Mr. Bush has members of veterans' organizations coming to the White House - the VFW, the American Legion, and other veterans' groups.
He will address them in the Rose Garden and we are told he will yet again say that the toughest battles of this war are yet to come and that this will be a war of unlimited -- undetermined - excuse me -- duration. And as that plays out here, some frustration being voiced here at the White House. A senior official this morning saying that the president simply thinks the news media has been silly in its questioning so far in raising skepticism about the war plan or in raising questions about the tactics.
The official saying - quote - "I think it's fair to say some there's some level of frustration with the Press Corps. He thinks it's silly, not borne out by the facts." This, of course, because the White House says we are just eight days into the ground campaign, nine days into military action, and you have a great deal of skepticism being raised at the briefings and in the newspapers and television reports about the war strategy. Officials here are drawing a direct comparison to the Kosovo campaign and the Clinton administration, the Afghanistan campaign, in more recent memory, saying that early in those conflicts, people raised questions and it turned out the strategies were right in the end.
Bush administration officials insisting that is where we will be a week or so from now, but they say the president is frustrated. We saw a bit of that yesterday at his news conference with the British Prime Minister Tony Blair. They cut back the number of questions they were planning to take from reporters. Mr. Bush was clearly exasperated at the questions about the timeline saying this is not about how long it takes, it is about removing Saddam Hussein from power. A bit of frustration evident as the president pounded the lectern at one point. So, one of the more interesting sub plots as the president tries to manage the public's expectations as the mounting tensions here at the White House and at the other briefings at the Pentagon and in Doha, tensions and frustration with the Press Corps -- Paula.
ZAHN: But John, let's try to separate two things here for a moment. It's one thing for the press to ask tough questions. Isn't it true that one of the president's own generals, Lieutenant General William Wallace, the commander of the Army forces in the Persian Gulf raised skepticism by saying rather pointedly in "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times" this morning that these irregular forces they're confronting are not what they war-gamed against. He essentially said we knew they were out there, but we weren't particularly sure how they were going to fight.
KING: It's exactly right that the general said that and we asked that of the senior official this morning and that is when the answer came back that the president thought our questions were sometimes silly. So, there is a natural tension, whenever there is a war underway, there is a natural - well there's a natural tension on any day between the media and the White House, but more of a tension, of course, when you have such a sensitive operation underway and this administration, I think, is in trying to manage the public's expectations is trying to push us back a little bit, if you will, and urge us to be a little bit more patient.
The White House believes this has been cast as David versus Goliath, if you will, and that the president has been -- they say the president has been clear that this could take some time, although this morning, another quote came up at the briefing. Vice President Cheney not all that long ago said he believed the combat would take only weeks, not months -- Paula.
ZAHN: John King, thanks so much. We'll be checking in with you throughout the morning. Bill, just finally for folks that might have missed that briefing a little bit earlier on this morning, when asked very pointed questions about whether the government had underestimated the strength of these troops, he acknowledged that you do get, in his words, a different view from planet earth, referring to folks like Lieutenant General William Wallace who are on the ground now in Iraq.
HEMMER: Yes, very true, and as we pointed out earlier today, Paula, there are more coming with about 30,000 on the way that were announced yesterday and about 100,000 to follow on in the weeks after that. When they arrive and when you get a full 130,000 new complement of soldiers and troops in the area, though, remains to be seen. Listen, it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort to move that amount of military hardware and personnel halfway around the world.
Back in the region right now, Paula, earlier today, we are monitoring the Iraqi information minister. He came out yet again in Baghdad briefing reporters there in the Iraqi capital about the number of casualties the Iraqis say right now and also their position as to how things are going. Watching this as well is Rym Brahimi. She's live in Amman, Jordan and joins us now for an update. Rym, hello to you.
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you Bill. Indeed, the information minister briefing reporters in Baghdad. He said that since the beginning of the campaign launched by the United States and Britain, 800 people had been injured and some 230 killed or martyred was the word he used. Now, he also accused the U.S. and Britain of deliberately targeting civilian areas and of committing a crime, he said the Iraqis would teach them a lesson they would never forget. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER (through translator): We will pursue them as war criminals. And we will pursue them in all ways we can, and we will pursue them everywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAHIMI: The minister also refers to the overnight bombings and this morning's bombings in Baghdad, a heavy intense night of bombing from what we know. The U.S. and Britain also seemed to have targeted some international communications buildings, some government buildings. On the whole from Baghdad's casualties, the minister said 97 people were injured overnight and - 92 people, rather, and seven people killed in those attacks.
Now, as you can imagine, Bill, all this campaign is not going down very well in the region. The region -- people in the region are very pro Iraqi. They don't necessarily support President Saddam Hussein, but definitely they feel a lot of sympathy for the Iraqi people. That and many fears as well as to what the region may turn into once the United States have finished their campaign.
You see here a magazine called (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the Arab nation. An article here about Egyptian intellectuals who think that this war will actually lead to an occupation of the entire Arab region by the United States. And then another significant little cartoon here, if I can show you this. The U.S. here, a huge bomb coming down on this little person who's the Middle East, and he's holding an apple that says Iraq. So they're trying to target Iraq, but how can they not affect the rest of the region.
And then, if we have that other cartoon, Bill, I think it's quite significant. It will show you the bitterness of the Arab region. Another cartoon that this is from a newspaper here in Jordan. The United States has a date with death and death says you ask me out on a date and then you don't even want to look me in the eyes. A bit of criticism there of how the U.S. has carried out this campaign until now - Bill.
HEMMER: Back to the briefing, Rym, quickly. The bunker-busters dropped in central Baghdad last night, one well over two tons in weight. Much reaction today regarding that or not?
BRAHIMI: Well, this is where the information minister said that the United States was using this proportionate force saying -- and again, saying -- accusing the U.S. of attacking deliberately civilian areas. And then he also questioned what was happening. He said that they're attacking government buildings. This is in reference also to the area that was hit, which was also an area where the information ministry and the foreign ministry are. They're not very far apart in Baghdad.
He said do they think that there are no civilians that go into those government buildings, that there are no people who go and conduct their daily business in those buildings? So you see he said they are targeting civilians. And then he also pointed to other regions in Iraq in the south namely in the city of Najaf.
He said that they were -- he said the U.S. also used cluster bombs and he said that was a terrible thing to do. He also said very defiantly that the United States claimed that they had taken over Umm Qasr, the port in the south and he said that's not true. Umm Qasr is still under Iraqi control - Bill.
HEMMER: Rym, thanks for the update. Rym Brahimi, again, watching things in Amman, Jordan. Now, Paula (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
ZAHN: Thanks so much Bill. Coming right out of the break, we pose the question what is Dr. Germ up to? At least that's what some folks call this woman you're going to see shortly in the videotape right there to the right of one of Saddam Hussein's advisors. She was seen in an Iraqi TV broadcast yesterday meeting with a number of officials. And we'll explain on the other side what we think this means. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ZAHN: Welcome back. As we're moving up on about 15 minutes before the hour on this Friday morning, a key advisor to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is now stepping down. Richard Perle is resigning as chairman of the Defense Policy Board. He says he doesn't want controversy about his business dealings to distract from the war effort. Perle has been criticized because of ties to a company that lobbies and the Pentagon and which could profit from the war. Perle also caused a stir when he lashed out at a reporter who questioned his ethics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD PERLE, DEFENSE POLICY BOARD: Look, Sy Hersh is the closest thing American journalism has to a terrorist, frankly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Though, Perle will not be the chairman, he will stay on as a member of the Defense Policy Board.
An American educated female Iraqi germ warfare expert was shown meeting with Saddam Hussein in a tape played on Iraqi TV yesterday. David Ensor is in Washington and he has more details on who she is. Good morning David. I guess my first question is we know when this broadcast was made or when it was taped?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: We don't know. U.S. officials do not know whether this is an old tape being replayed for whatever reason or whether it was a meeting that happened yesterday or the day before, but the lady you see there in the panning by is Dr. Huda Ammash. She is an American educated microbiologist and U.S. intelligence officials say she played an important role in the mid '90s in the rebuilding of Iraq's surreptitious biological weapons program.
She's, as I say, American educated. She has a PhD. from the University of Missouri and what U.S. officials say is they're not clear whether this is a meeting that just occurred or whether the tape was played for some other reason. So, it's unclear to them whether her presence at the meeting signifies perhaps some intention by the Iraqis to use biological weapons during this war or whether she was there in her role as a senior Baath party leader, that another role that she also plays.
So, they are intrigued. It's a little disturbing, a little chilling to see her there but, at the same time, it may not have any particular significance - Paula.
ZAHN: And David, you have spent a lot of time with the folks analyzing all of these various tapes of Saddam Hussein we've seen. Is there any latest word on his status? I think the last time you and I spoke about it in depth, there were reports that he had been taken from that compound that was hit in a stretcher. What are we saying here? What are we hearing now?
ENSOR: I'm afraid still the same, which is that, yes, there was one piece of intelligence suggesting he had been injured and might have been taken out on a stretcher. There were equally intelligence given equal weight, though, that suggests he wasn't hurt at all and that suggested he might be dead. Now, the consensus at U.S. intelligence seems to be that he is very much alive and still in charge in Baghdad, although he's lost a lot of his communications capabilities and isn't as able to command the forces underneath him as he once was.
There is belief that he may, in fact, be using old-fashioned couriers and letters and envelopes to send commands to various troops in outlying areas since much of his communications has been degraded and what's left is being actively pursued by U.S. intelligence and the military - Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, David Ensor, absolutely fascinating. Back to Kuwait City and Bill - Bill.
HEMMER: Paula, these disturbing reports in around the city of Basra where a number of people said to be in the thousands trying to leave and flee that town were fired on by Iraqi soldiers, possibly paramilitaries. We heard this word earlier today. In a moment, we have one of our own reporters embedded with the British. We will check in live and find out what's happening on the ground there. Back in a moment with that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Welcome back. Moving up on 10 minutes before the hour. There is a report that thousands of Iraqi civilians have been trying to leave Basra in southern Iraq, but they are being forced back into the city by militia forces loyal to Saddam Hussein. They've actually been shot upon by those forces. Diana Muriel is with British forces near Basra this morning. She joins us by videophone.
Diana, good morning. I understand you just listened to a briefing. What is the latest?
DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Paula. I've just returned from a military briefing, which told me, gave me the details of what happened this morning. It was about 9:00 local time when more than 1,000 women and children with men who appeared to be escorting their families tried to make it across the bridge. This is one of the main bridges leading into Basra, and they tried to make it from the north side of the river, which is militia-controlled still to the south side where British forces are waiting.
As the main body of people came across the bridge, they were fired on by a 4-by-4 vehicle, four-wheel drive vehicle, which drove onto the bridge and on it was mounted a machine gun and it was firing at people in the crowd. They also came under mortar attack from buildings on the north side of the river, the militia-controlled side of the river.
People, of course, fleeing in panic. Two hundred or 300 or so made it back to the north side. The others made it across the bridge to safety in the south. The British brought on a Challenger 2 tank onto the bridge and fired at that 4-by-4 vehicle. They killed three enemy who were in that vehicle and mounted on that vehicle and they believe that these are Fedayeen. They believe that these are militia. They were dressed in civilian clothes. Some of them had (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on, I understand, and these appear to be part of the groups that are controlling Basra at the moment.
Over the past few days, refugees have been trying to get out of the city across these bridges and they have been attacked before, but this seems to have been the biggest incident that the British forces have witnessed in the past few days. The British forces were able to take one casualty, one young woman who was, I'm not sure whether she was hit by machine gunfire or by -- shot from the mortar round. She had various fractures, but I understand that she's in a stable condition.
The refugees that came across, Paula, are now being talked to by British military, being debriefed as to the conditions in Basra, but I have no details of that Paula.
ZAHN: Diana, am I hearing you correctly that only one person was injured in spite of this barrage of fire out of the 1,000 trying to make it across that bridge?
MURIEL: No...
(CROSSTALK)
MURIEL: No, several people, several people were injured. Only one casualty was recovered inside a British tank that went out to get her. This woman was clearly in a lot of difficulty. Others received various injuries and we don't know what happened to the people who went back to the north side, of course. But no, there were several people wounded in this incident.
One other thing that's very important about this that the British (UNINTELLIGIBLE), as I said, they were women and children mostly, but they were escorted by what appeared to be their husbands. And later on in the day, it appears that most of the men that were seen coming across the bridge have returned to the north side -- Paula.
ZAHN: And that is the side controlled by the militia, right?
MURIEL: That's correct. That's correct. There are Fedayeen groups, militia - several militia groups operating in Basra. I understand from various British military sources that they've been terrifying the local population there. There has been this popular uprising over the past few days, which has been stamped on very viciously by the Fedayeen, by this local militia and it's still a very fragile situation north of - in the city.
ZAHN: Diane Muriel, thank you for that update, and disturbing as it is, Bill, we had been told about how these irregular forces often wear civilian clothes to get their work done. I guess this is probably the most detailed account we've had of what happened to these 1,000 women and children trying to cross that bridge to safety on the other side where the British forces were. And I guess she made it quite clear they were escorted by their husbands and many of them turned back and went to militia-controlled territory.
HEMMER: Makes it -- underlines and highlights the fact, too, what the American military has been saying about the civilian clothes that are worn by a number of these paramilitaries, not only in Basra, Paula, but also in Nasiriyah and other locations that we've talked about. It's going to make it a very confusing situation, too. And if you listen to the Marines and the members of the U.S. Army and how they describe the difficulties and the challenge in trying to face this.
