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American Morning
British Have Knowledge of Effective Urban Combat
Aired March 31, 2003 - 09:47 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: At this point, the U.S. and the British will have to go house to house at some point in order to ensure that many of these towns have, indeed, been secured and everybody, ultimately, still believes a good chance that Baghdad may see house to house at some point very soon. Maybe weeks away, perhaps months away.
Major General Don Shepperd is back with us at the CNN Center to talk about the strategy here that lies ahead for the military. Don, tell us about -- there are obvious complications here, when you are going house to house and door to door, but how much more difficult does the mission become when that is the objective, as opposed to bombing from the air and waiting before you move in?
SHEPPERD: Yes, much more difficult, Bill. Much has been made about the similarities between this and the Gulf War and what we did or didn't do, what we should or should not have done. The Gulf War was much simpler from this standpoint in that the Iraqi forces were arrayed in and around Kuwait, and the objective of that was to kick them out of Kuwait, destroy their ability to move supplies forward to their front. That was much easier than what is going on now where we are going, by necessity, at some point, village to village, and you are having to go in there and clear out weapons caches from all of these villages.
You are having to get the public to give you information and intelligence so that you can go against the -- you can root out these -- these Fedayeen Saddam. You are fighting from town to town in some cases, and at the same time you are having to provide all the humanitarian aid and ensure the security of the oil fields for the recovery of the economy. This is much more complicated from a mission standpoint than we had during the Gulf War, where the coalition there simply had to kick them out of Kuwait, and then essentially be on its way -- Bill.
HEMMER: Well, there is a sense of logic that follows this trail, though, up toward Baghdad. If you are learning lessons in Basra and Umm Qasr, eventually in Nasiriya as the Marines are doing right now, does that help in terms of strategy, in terms of keeping people safe, once you get into Baghdad?
SHEPPERD: It does, and what we are finding is the tenacity of the Fedayeen Saddam has surprised just about everyone. In addition, the willingness of the people to turn on the regime is slower than some anticipated, and the reason is, I think, is very obvious. Before when they rose up, at the encouragement of United States against the regime, and the United States basically underestimated the staying power of Saddam, thinking would he quickly be replaced after losing the Gulf War, and he still remained, these people got hammered. They got killed, and they are not going to let that happen again.
So they are very slow to come forward, very slow to switch sides, although you can see a galloping movement of that happening at some point, but it has not happened yet, and it is going to be tough slugging. And when the coalition forces get into Baghdad, the lessons that they have learned on the way will be applicable there -- Bill.
HEMMER: General, one thing that crossed over the weekend, I don't know if you have much visibility on this as the military likes to say, but the fact that the U.S. military might be now leaning on the British in terms of finding out how to best do door to door, house to house searches based on the British military's experience in Northern Ireland for the past three and a half decades. Do you know much about that? Does it make sense to you in that way?
SHEPPERD: It makes a lot of sense to me. The British military, although small, is an excellent military. They have excellent military in all of their services. Their experience in Ireland is very, very -- is very -- in Belfast is very similar to what's going on down there, and I think watching the lessons -- learning lessons from the British in how they clear Basra, and how at the same time they gain intelligence and win the hearts and minds of the people and provide humanitarian aid is very instructive. Although our forces have received training in MOUT -- military operations in urban terrain, I think the British are probably the world's experts at this, and paying attention to them is very -- is very useful -- Bill.
HEMMER: And the British will tell you. They tell us here in Kuwait what they lack in technology they more than make up for in that strategy that you are talking about, door to door, house to house. Thanks, Don. Major General Don Shepperd again at the CNN Center.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 31, 2003 - 09:47 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: At this point, the U.S. and the British will have to go house to house at some point in order to ensure that many of these towns have, indeed, been secured and everybody, ultimately, still believes a good chance that Baghdad may see house to house at some point very soon. Maybe weeks away, perhaps months away.
Major General Don Shepperd is back with us at the CNN Center to talk about the strategy here that lies ahead for the military. Don, tell us about -- there are obvious complications here, when you are going house to house and door to door, but how much more difficult does the mission become when that is the objective, as opposed to bombing from the air and waiting before you move in?
SHEPPERD: Yes, much more difficult, Bill. Much has been made about the similarities between this and the Gulf War and what we did or didn't do, what we should or should not have done. The Gulf War was much simpler from this standpoint in that the Iraqi forces were arrayed in and around Kuwait, and the objective of that was to kick them out of Kuwait, destroy their ability to move supplies forward to their front. That was much easier than what is going on now where we are going, by necessity, at some point, village to village, and you are having to go in there and clear out weapons caches from all of these villages.
You are having to get the public to give you information and intelligence so that you can go against the -- you can root out these -- these Fedayeen Saddam. You are fighting from town to town in some cases, and at the same time you are having to provide all the humanitarian aid and ensure the security of the oil fields for the recovery of the economy. This is much more complicated from a mission standpoint than we had during the Gulf War, where the coalition there simply had to kick them out of Kuwait, and then essentially be on its way -- Bill.
HEMMER: Well, there is a sense of logic that follows this trail, though, up toward Baghdad. If you are learning lessons in Basra and Umm Qasr, eventually in Nasiriya as the Marines are doing right now, does that help in terms of strategy, in terms of keeping people safe, once you get into Baghdad?
SHEPPERD: It does, and what we are finding is the tenacity of the Fedayeen Saddam has surprised just about everyone. In addition, the willingness of the people to turn on the regime is slower than some anticipated, and the reason is, I think, is very obvious. Before when they rose up, at the encouragement of United States against the regime, and the United States basically underestimated the staying power of Saddam, thinking would he quickly be replaced after losing the Gulf War, and he still remained, these people got hammered. They got killed, and they are not going to let that happen again.
So they are very slow to come forward, very slow to switch sides, although you can see a galloping movement of that happening at some point, but it has not happened yet, and it is going to be tough slugging. And when the coalition forces get into Baghdad, the lessons that they have learned on the way will be applicable there -- Bill.
HEMMER: General, one thing that crossed over the weekend, I don't know if you have much visibility on this as the military likes to say, but the fact that the U.S. military might be now leaning on the British in terms of finding out how to best do door to door, house to house searches based on the British military's experience in Northern Ireland for the past three and a half decades. Do you know much about that? Does it make sense to you in that way?
SHEPPERD: It makes a lot of sense to me. The British military, although small, is an excellent military. They have excellent military in all of their services. Their experience in Ireland is very, very -- is very -- in Belfast is very similar to what's going on down there, and I think watching the lessons -- learning lessons from the British in how they clear Basra, and how at the same time they gain intelligence and win the hearts and minds of the people and provide humanitarian aid is very instructive. Although our forces have received training in MOUT -- military operations in urban terrain, I think the British are probably the world's experts at this, and paying attention to them is very -- is very useful -- Bill.
HEMMER: And the British will tell you. They tell us here in Kuwait what they lack in technology they more than make up for in that strategy that you are talking about, door to door, house to house. Thanks, Don. Major General Don Shepperd again at the CNN Center.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
