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American Morning

Geneva Conventions Define Who is POW

Aired April 01, 2003 - 09:46   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: With news today that a U.S. Marine shot and killed an Iraqi prisoner in self-defense over the weekend, we're going to look at the treatment of POWs on both sides. Four international treaties known as the Geneva Conventions define what is legal in terms of treatment. The treaty requires countries to feed, clothe and provide medical care to prisoners, to inform their governments, and the to give the Red Cross access to captives. The 50-year-old treaty also says POWs must be protected against violence, intimidation and reprisals.
Are those standards being followed in this war? Joining us to talk about that, our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. We really are on the air. There are different feed patterns all across the country. So you watch what you're going to say this morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm paying close attention.

ZAHN: What are the key issues that we should be addressing right now?

TOOBIN: The key issue is humane treatment. I mean, that is the overall requirement of Geneva Convention, and one of the complaints about the Geneva Convention is that there's no real enforcement remedy, but the United States and Iraq both signed it when it went into effect after World War II, and humane treatment is the basic requirement.

The controversy involves photographing, exploiting, showing prisoners, and that's where there has been a controversy arising now.

ZAHN: Where do you see that going? That argument?

TOOBIN: Well, the best argument that the American government has is that they -- the Iraqis have exploited our prisoners, have showed them on television, being interrogated. That seems a clear violation of the Geneva Convention. The Iraqis have responded that we showed some photographs of the people that were in Guantanamo Bay, some of the initial prisoners. But there doesn't seem to be much comparison. The problem is, there's not much that our government can do about the treatment of our prisoners over there until they are released.

ZAHN: And the fact is, we know nothing about these American prisoners are wars right now and their status.

TOOBIN: Right. Sadly, we don't even know whether they're alive. One of the requirements, you said earlier, allow the Red Cross access. We are in the process of allowing the Red Cross to have access to our prisoner camps. The Red Cross, as far as I'm aware, has had no access to our prisoners.

So clearly, there's a violation of the Geneva Conventions being committed by Iraq, but there's nothing we can do about it.

ZAHN: We all vividly remember the case of Jeffrey Zaun (ph), the Navy pilot who was shot down, who talked about the horrible treatment he endured while in Iraqi hands. And he said basically, your treatment is based on who it is, who has taken you captive. It depends whether it's the special guard, or it depends who you're being held by. What is to be learned from his experience? And what can we apply to today's POWs?

TOOBIN: Unfortunately, nothing very comforting is to be learned. There's not much you can do until the war is over. He's actually file a lawsuit to try to get some of the Iraqi money that has been frozen by the United States government. The United States government is also trying to get that money to use it to help rebuild Iraq. It's likely that the government is going to get before any individual plaintiffs do.

ZAHN: On to another issue today, the United States Supreme Court starts oral arguments in a controversial lawsuit about how race might be used in the admissions process for universities. Why is this so important?

TOOBIN: You know, just to give you an example, this is only the second time in history that the U.S. Supreme Court has allowed an audiotape of the argument to be released. The first time was Bush V. Gore. The court recognized what a big deal this case this is. And the reason is really very simple -- 25 years ago, the Supreme Court said the universities couldn't have quotas in terms of racial diversity, but they could use race as a factor in admissions. A number of appeals courts and the Bush administration has said that's unconstitutional, that's reverse discrimination against white people. The issue is squarely joined in this case, and the Supreme Court's going to decide it.

ZAHN: And this is based on a lawsuit that some students from the University of Michigan filed maintaining that they were...

TOOBIN: Discriminated against. Michigan has a system where if you're a racial minority, you get a certain number of extra points in the points system where they admit people. These are white plaintiffs who had higher scores, test scores, but weren't admitted, and they say that's discrimination. The universities, and many, many universities across the country say, look, we want diversity in geography, we want diversity in talent, we want athletes, we want musicians, we also want racial diversity; we should be allowed to do that.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired April 1, 2003 - 09:46   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: With news today that a U.S. Marine shot and killed an Iraqi prisoner in self-defense over the weekend, we're going to look at the treatment of POWs on both sides. Four international treaties known as the Geneva Conventions define what is legal in terms of treatment. The treaty requires countries to feed, clothe and provide medical care to prisoners, to inform their governments, and the to give the Red Cross access to captives. The 50-year-old treaty also says POWs must be protected against violence, intimidation and reprisals.
Are those standards being followed in this war? Joining us to talk about that, our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. We really are on the air. There are different feed patterns all across the country. So you watch what you're going to say this morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm paying close attention.

ZAHN: What are the key issues that we should be addressing right now?

TOOBIN: The key issue is humane treatment. I mean, that is the overall requirement of Geneva Convention, and one of the complaints about the Geneva Convention is that there's no real enforcement remedy, but the United States and Iraq both signed it when it went into effect after World War II, and humane treatment is the basic requirement.

The controversy involves photographing, exploiting, showing prisoners, and that's where there has been a controversy arising now.

ZAHN: Where do you see that going? That argument?

TOOBIN: Well, the best argument that the American government has is that they -- the Iraqis have exploited our prisoners, have showed them on television, being interrogated. That seems a clear violation of the Geneva Convention. The Iraqis have responded that we showed some photographs of the people that were in Guantanamo Bay, some of the initial prisoners. But there doesn't seem to be much comparison. The problem is, there's not much that our government can do about the treatment of our prisoners over there until they are released.

ZAHN: And the fact is, we know nothing about these American prisoners are wars right now and their status.

TOOBIN: Right. Sadly, we don't even know whether they're alive. One of the requirements, you said earlier, allow the Red Cross access. We are in the process of allowing the Red Cross to have access to our prisoner camps. The Red Cross, as far as I'm aware, has had no access to our prisoners.

So clearly, there's a violation of the Geneva Conventions being committed by Iraq, but there's nothing we can do about it.

ZAHN: We all vividly remember the case of Jeffrey Zaun (ph), the Navy pilot who was shot down, who talked about the horrible treatment he endured while in Iraqi hands. And he said basically, your treatment is based on who it is, who has taken you captive. It depends whether it's the special guard, or it depends who you're being held by. What is to be learned from his experience? And what can we apply to today's POWs?

TOOBIN: Unfortunately, nothing very comforting is to be learned. There's not much you can do until the war is over. He's actually file a lawsuit to try to get some of the Iraqi money that has been frozen by the United States government. The United States government is also trying to get that money to use it to help rebuild Iraq. It's likely that the government is going to get before any individual plaintiffs do.

ZAHN: On to another issue today, the United States Supreme Court starts oral arguments in a controversial lawsuit about how race might be used in the admissions process for universities. Why is this so important?

TOOBIN: You know, just to give you an example, this is only the second time in history that the U.S. Supreme Court has allowed an audiotape of the argument to be released. The first time was Bush V. Gore. The court recognized what a big deal this case this is. And the reason is really very simple -- 25 years ago, the Supreme Court said the universities couldn't have quotas in terms of racial diversity, but they could use race as a factor in admissions. A number of appeals courts and the Bush administration has said that's unconstitutional, that's reverse discrimination against white people. The issue is squarely joined in this case, and the Supreme Court's going to decide it.

ZAHN: And this is based on a lawsuit that some students from the University of Michigan filed maintaining that they were...

TOOBIN: Discriminated against. Michigan has a system where if you're a racial minority, you get a certain number of extra points in the points system where they admit people. These are white plaintiffs who had higher scores, test scores, but weren't admitted, and they say that's discrimination. The universities, and many, many universities across the country say, look, we want diversity in geography, we want diversity in talent, we want athletes, we want musicians, we also want racial diversity; we should be allowed to do that.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com