Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Interview With Fawaz Gerges

Aired April 07, 2003 - 08:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Iraqi opposition leader Ahmed Chalaby has been flown into southern Iraq by the U.S. Air Force. He will lead 700 Iraqi opposition troops for missions inside the country and they will serve under CENTCOM commander Tommy Franks. There is deep division in the White House over the role Chalaby might play in a post-war government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AHMED CHALABY, IRAQI OPPOSITION LEADER: The American military, I think, should stay in Iraq until the first elections are held and a democratic government is established. I'm not prepared to give a time frame, but we expect to have a constitution ratified within two years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz expects that could take more than six months before the U.S. is ready to hand off control to an independent Iraqi government. President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair will discuss post war leadership, as well as their disagreement over how strong a role the U.N. should play in a post war Iraq during meetings today and tomorrow in northern Ireland.

Joining me to talk more about post war Iraq is head of the International Affairs in Middle Eastern studies at Sarah Lawrence College. In the end, what kind of role do you think the U.N. will play in shaping a post war Iraq?

FAWAZ GERGES, SARAH LAWRENCE COLLEGE: Unfortunately, it seems to me that the ideaologs (ph) in-charge of the Iraqi project don't assign the U.N. any major role. I think it would send a wrong message not only to the Iraqi's but to the worlds community at large. It seems to me that the idealogs (ph) do not trust the United Nations and do not want to involve the United Nations and everyone loses in the process.

ZAHN: What role do the ideologues have -- what reason do they have to trust the U.N.? You know how suspicious they are of the U.S.

GERGES: I think what we need to remember is that Iraq is inside the country along with Iraqi groups should determine the future of their country. Paula, for any emerging government in Iraq to work, to function, to be seen, the process must be seen as transparent and fair not as an American dictator. This is why you need the United Nations and this why you need the international community and this is why you need to involve as many members of the international community as possible, because I think the idea is are the American commander or American High Commissioner is a bad one and it's fought with danger.

ZAHN: Even if it's a temporary role? It's being called a transitional government.

GERGES: Six months? One year? Two years? Three years? Four? I mean, this is why you do want to convince the Iraqis the Americans do not have any design on their country? How do you want to convince the United States is determined and genuine about empowering the Iraqis themselves to govern their country? There are larger questions here this is Iraqis themselves, in particular inside the country, should determine their own country or future.

ZAHN: There certainly is no guarantee even if the U.N. gets involved in shaping this new government that that's going to work either?

GERGES: Absolutely, this is why the political liberations of the Iraqi crisis are extremely dangerous. This is why the United States must involve the international community and, as you know, there are major disagreements between Tony Blair and the ideologues in charge of the Iraqi project in the United States. Here, have you the Defense Department and the Office of the Vice President advancing the interests of Chalaby who has very little political weight or any social base in the country itself.

ZAHN: And no stated interest according to that "60 Minutes" interview and having any permanent role in a government.

GERGES: He stated he would not accept an advisory role. He stated his goal ambition is to play a leadership role in the country and boast the -- the State Department and CIA as skeptical and ambivalent about Chalaby because he doesn't have the political weight and he has no social base in the country itself. Imposing Chalaby, or any other leader, the leader of the larger Shiite opposition group in Iraq will has stressed that the Shiite community would oppose any installed American commander or Iraqi ruler. He threatened to use military force to do so. Why would you alienate the leaders in Iraq itself? Why would you alienate the leading Shiite community. Why would you alienate the world? Why not involve the world? The united nations, the Arab states, why not make it an international project rather than the ideologues in the Defense Department and the office of the vice president.

ZAHN: So much of this in play at this hour. We'll have to have you back after the president meets with the Prime Minister of Great Britain where a lot of this will be discussed. Thanks for being with us and appreciate your time.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired April 7, 2003 - 08:20   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Iraqi opposition leader Ahmed Chalaby has been flown into southern Iraq by the U.S. Air Force. He will lead 700 Iraqi opposition troops for missions inside the country and they will serve under CENTCOM commander Tommy Franks. There is deep division in the White House over the role Chalaby might play in a post-war government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AHMED CHALABY, IRAQI OPPOSITION LEADER: The American military, I think, should stay in Iraq until the first elections are held and a democratic government is established. I'm not prepared to give a time frame, but we expect to have a constitution ratified within two years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz expects that could take more than six months before the U.S. is ready to hand off control to an independent Iraqi government. President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair will discuss post war leadership, as well as their disagreement over how strong a role the U.N. should play in a post war Iraq during meetings today and tomorrow in northern Ireland.

Joining me to talk more about post war Iraq is head of the International Affairs in Middle Eastern studies at Sarah Lawrence College. In the end, what kind of role do you think the U.N. will play in shaping a post war Iraq?

FAWAZ GERGES, SARAH LAWRENCE COLLEGE: Unfortunately, it seems to me that the ideaologs (ph) in-charge of the Iraqi project don't assign the U.N. any major role. I think it would send a wrong message not only to the Iraqi's but to the worlds community at large. It seems to me that the idealogs (ph) do not trust the United Nations and do not want to involve the United Nations and everyone loses in the process.

ZAHN: What role do the ideologues have -- what reason do they have to trust the U.N.? You know how suspicious they are of the U.S.

GERGES: I think what we need to remember is that Iraq is inside the country along with Iraqi groups should determine the future of their country. Paula, for any emerging government in Iraq to work, to function, to be seen, the process must be seen as transparent and fair not as an American dictator. This is why you need the United Nations and this why you need the international community and this is why you need to involve as many members of the international community as possible, because I think the idea is are the American commander or American High Commissioner is a bad one and it's fought with danger.

ZAHN: Even if it's a temporary role? It's being called a transitional government.

GERGES: Six months? One year? Two years? Three years? Four? I mean, this is why you do want to convince the Iraqis the Americans do not have any design on their country? How do you want to convince the United States is determined and genuine about empowering the Iraqis themselves to govern their country? There are larger questions here this is Iraqis themselves, in particular inside the country, should determine their own country or future.

ZAHN: There certainly is no guarantee even if the U.N. gets involved in shaping this new government that that's going to work either?

GERGES: Absolutely, this is why the political liberations of the Iraqi crisis are extremely dangerous. This is why the United States must involve the international community and, as you know, there are major disagreements between Tony Blair and the ideologues in charge of the Iraqi project in the United States. Here, have you the Defense Department and the Office of the Vice President advancing the interests of Chalaby who has very little political weight or any social base in the country itself.

ZAHN: And no stated interest according to that "60 Minutes" interview and having any permanent role in a government.

GERGES: He stated he would not accept an advisory role. He stated his goal ambition is to play a leadership role in the country and boast the -- the State Department and CIA as skeptical and ambivalent about Chalaby because he doesn't have the political weight and he has no social base in the country itself. Imposing Chalaby, or any other leader, the leader of the larger Shiite opposition group in Iraq will has stressed that the Shiite community would oppose any installed American commander or Iraqi ruler. He threatened to use military force to do so. Why would you alienate the leaders in Iraq itself? Why would you alienate the leading Shiite community. Why would you alienate the world? Why not involve the world? The united nations, the Arab states, why not make it an international project rather than the ideologues in the Defense Department and the office of the vice president.

ZAHN: So much of this in play at this hour. We'll have to have you back after the president meets with the Prime Minister of Great Britain where a lot of this will be discussed. Thanks for being with us and appreciate your time.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com