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American Morning
View from Baghdad
Aired April 10, 2003 - 09:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now, after one of the heaviest nights of coalition bombing in northern Iraq, Kurdish fighters today, backed by U.S. special forces, advancing quickly, and are reportedly in the process of taking control of Kirkuk.
Our Ben Wedeman is there and joins us with the latest.
Ben, please bring us up to date. Barbara Starr just reporting from the Pentagon that the situation is so fluid, the Pentagon won't even say who is in control at this hour.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, it certainly does appear here, and we're in the center of Kirkuk, and we've been here for about two hours, that the Kurds are very much in control here. Not only in control, the local inhabitants, who are also largely Kurdish, as you can see, are celebrating, celebrating in a way we saw yesterday in Baghdad.
Just about half an hour ago, they managed to pull down this statue of Saddam Hussein, and now they're very proudly standing on top of it.
When it fell, there was a great cheer of triumph and victory. Now, it appears that U.S. and Kurdish forces were able to enter Kirkuk, a city of well over half a million, without really much of a fight. We left Irbil, our base, and basically drove at breakneck speed, and arrived at this city to find Kurds very much in control.
There was a lot of gunfire, but it was mostly celebratory gunfire. There is a good deal of looting. In fact, a real orgy of looting and theft as we saw people going into factories, into offices, and just ripping off whatever they could get their hands on, but as I said, Paula, it certainly does appear that the Kurds are very much until control here.
ZAHN: And what are some of the concerns of people there today in spite of the tremendous symbolic significance of what just happened in the square?
WEDEMAN: Well, I think one of the top concerns here, Paula, is law and order. We really saw government stores, and warehouses and factories being demolished. I went into one school, where the children were ripping it to pieces. They were pulling paintings off the walls, throwing desks through windows, ripping books part. It appears that law and order is a real concern, and I spoke with one older man who told me that, you know, the anger you see on the streets, the outpouring that is so apparent is inevitable after 35 years of Baathist rule -- Paula.
ZAHN: Have you had a chance, Ben, to talk to many of the local people there yet?
WEDEMAN: Plenty of opportunities, and everybody's very happy indeed to see the end of Saddam Hussein. I have not found one person who wasn't ecstatic about the fact that the Baathist Party is no longer in power. People are worried a bit about the future. They don't know who's going to take over. The Kurds would like to see the Kurds run Kirkuk. There are Turkomen who are ethnic Turks. In fact, these gentlemen you see right now are waving posters that would indicate they are affiliated with the Turkish ethnic minority here. They're very concerned that the Kurds are going to throw their weight around.
So a lot of -- a certain amount of latent ethnic tension here -- Paula.
ZAHN: I know Jane Arraf was just describing to us the number of different ethnic populations. She talked about the Kurds, Arabs and Christians, all basically coming together in this city. Do you have a final thought on that?
WEDEMAN: Yes it is a microcosm of the ethnic mosaic that is Iraq, because, of course, I mentioned the Kurds and the Turks. Jane mentioned to you earlier, you do have the Christians, and not only one sect of them, but you have the Caldenn (ph), and the Asyrians (ph) and many others.
Now, by and large, ethnic relations have been fairly cordial, but that may be partially a function of the fact that Saddam Hussein imposed order and never really addressed any of the differences -- Paula.
ZAHN: Ben Wedeman reporting from a very jubilant downtown Kirkuk today. Thanks so much. Let's go straight to the White House, where our own Chris Burns is standing by there.
Good morning, Chris.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
Before I get to the part of what President Bush has said in his latest video statement, let me mention something about Turkey and Kirkuk. That is quickly becoming an issue with the Turkish prime minister, Prime Minister Gul, saying that he is getting reassurances from Secretary of State Colin Powell today even that there will be U.S.-led coalition control of Kirkuk, that they will move the Peshmerga fighters out of Kirkuk. A big issue for the Turks. They are very sensitive to that, because of the Kurds on both sides of the border, they're afraid of the Kurds, millions of Kurds being empowered on their side of the border. So they are very worried about that. And there had been concerns that perhaps the Turks could send in troops into northern Iraq if that remains unstable.
So this is a very important issue. Ari Fleischer, the White House spokesman here yesterday, having said that they will insist on the territorial integrity of Iraq, that it not be taken apart, that the Kurds not seize control of northern Iraq, and that is why U.S. forces are there right now. Ari Fleischer saying, in his words, "We mean that."
Let me get to the main part about it, however, is this public relations offensive that the Bush administration is now getting involved in. If you look at the image from yesterday of the U.S. soldier draping the U.S. flag across the face of Saddam Hussein, that didn't last very long, but it lasted long enough to snap pictures, and it's on the front page of "The New York Post" saying "Freedom," but in Arab newspapers, across the Arab world, it's become the main front page issue, where they are seeing it not as freedom, but as an occupying force taking over an Arab country, very sensitive to that, and in this is what the Bush administration has to combat within and without Iraq. That is why President Bush and Tony Blair have come out with a video they will be broadcasting in the next hour or so to the Iraqi country, to the Iraqi people from a C-130 transport plane flying overhead broadcasting that.
What will they be saying? They say, we come not as occupiers, we come to help you get your freedom back, to rebuild your country, to get the aid that you need.
President Bush saying the troops won't stay forever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The goals of our coalition and clear and limited. We will end a brutal regime, whose aggression and weapons of mass destruction make it a unique threat to the world. Coalition forces will help maintain law and order, so that Iraqis can live in security. We will respect your great religious traditions whose principles of equality and compassion are essential to Iraq's future. We will help you build a peaceful and representative government that protects the rights of all citizens. And then, our military forces will leave. Iraq will go forward as a unified, independent and sovereign nation that has regained a respected place in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNS: Now, coupled with this image problem, of course, is the power vacuum. They're going to have to fill this in with an interim administration. That is a big issue, who's going to staff that -- Paula.
ZAHN: It's a huge obstacle ahead, everybody saying. Thanks so much, Chris.
We're going to go straight to Baghdad now, where our own Walt Rodgers has been following the fast-breaking developments there. He joins us from just outside the Palestine Hotel.
Good morning, Walt.
WALT RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
War has many terrible faces, but perhaps none more terrible than the face of war which the children of Baghdad have seen. I've been out walking in residential neighborhoods, talking with families. I came upon a young Iraqi American girl from the Chicago area trapped here in Baghdad, trapped during the bombing. She's 14 years old. Her name was Sara Horaea (ph). She said the bombing was terrible. She would lie in bed and cry at night. She said the very ground would shake. At one point, I've asked this young Iraqi-American girl, how does it feel to be an American here? She said, "It's weird. It's impossible to understand that the United States has such great power."
I asked Sara again, what's the worst thing you saw. She said, "The worst thing I saw was looking out my front door and seeing the street littered with the bodies of dead Iraqi soldiers." And then, she said, "We would see cats and dogs nibbling on the corpses."
Children should not have to see such things. And children of Baghdad have seen far too many images like that. Most of the residents of the city continue to say they have ample food and water, although the only electricity they seem to be getting is if they're fortunate enough to have generators. The looting does continue today, but on a much smaller scale. Perhaps there just isn't as much to steal. The strangest thing I saw looted was a horse, an Arabian stallion. That of course is about as strange as it gets -- Paula.
ZAHN: We've seen a lot of large items being taken away in wheelbarrows. Talk to us a little bit about what the chief concerns are of the people you talk to about this transition now that the country is going to have to go through in the months to come.
RODGERS: You know, it's fascinating. The concerns of Iraqi citizens are like the concerns of American citizens. They want nothing more than security. They don't want an uncertain future; they want a predictable future, and I think that's true of just about every society. The Iraqis are a very cultured and well-educated people. When you ask them, what are you afraid of? It's always the uncertainty.
Remember, in most Arab capitals like this, 50 percent of the children are under -- or 50 percent of the population are under 16 years of age. They know nothing other than Saddam Hussein and now this great black, blank future ahead of them, and they don't know what to expect, and many of them say they are afraid, particularly that Saddam will merely be replaced by another despot. One Iraqi told me that he's afraid Saddam will be replaced by yet another oil thief. That is they believe Saddam stole the riches of the country, and they're just afraid that someone else, another tyrant will come along and steal the riches.
Most of all, they would like security and peace, and one Iraqi I was speaking with just a few minutes ago said, more than anything else, he'd like a voice in his own government, Democratic aspirations, something that's been denied here -- Paula.
ZAHN: Walt Rodgers, thanks so much. We'll see you a little bit later on this morning.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 10, 2003 - 09:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now, after one of the heaviest nights of coalition bombing in northern Iraq, Kurdish fighters today, backed by U.S. special forces, advancing quickly, and are reportedly in the process of taking control of Kirkuk.
Our Ben Wedeman is there and joins us with the latest.
Ben, please bring us up to date. Barbara Starr just reporting from the Pentagon that the situation is so fluid, the Pentagon won't even say who is in control at this hour.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, it certainly does appear here, and we're in the center of Kirkuk, and we've been here for about two hours, that the Kurds are very much in control here. Not only in control, the local inhabitants, who are also largely Kurdish, as you can see, are celebrating, celebrating in a way we saw yesterday in Baghdad.
Just about half an hour ago, they managed to pull down this statue of Saddam Hussein, and now they're very proudly standing on top of it.
When it fell, there was a great cheer of triumph and victory. Now, it appears that U.S. and Kurdish forces were able to enter Kirkuk, a city of well over half a million, without really much of a fight. We left Irbil, our base, and basically drove at breakneck speed, and arrived at this city to find Kurds very much in control.
There was a lot of gunfire, but it was mostly celebratory gunfire. There is a good deal of looting. In fact, a real orgy of looting and theft as we saw people going into factories, into offices, and just ripping off whatever they could get their hands on, but as I said, Paula, it certainly does appear that the Kurds are very much until control here.
ZAHN: And what are some of the concerns of people there today in spite of the tremendous symbolic significance of what just happened in the square?
WEDEMAN: Well, I think one of the top concerns here, Paula, is law and order. We really saw government stores, and warehouses and factories being demolished. I went into one school, where the children were ripping it to pieces. They were pulling paintings off the walls, throwing desks through windows, ripping books part. It appears that law and order is a real concern, and I spoke with one older man who told me that, you know, the anger you see on the streets, the outpouring that is so apparent is inevitable after 35 years of Baathist rule -- Paula.
ZAHN: Have you had a chance, Ben, to talk to many of the local people there yet?
WEDEMAN: Plenty of opportunities, and everybody's very happy indeed to see the end of Saddam Hussein. I have not found one person who wasn't ecstatic about the fact that the Baathist Party is no longer in power. People are worried a bit about the future. They don't know who's going to take over. The Kurds would like to see the Kurds run Kirkuk. There are Turkomen who are ethnic Turks. In fact, these gentlemen you see right now are waving posters that would indicate they are affiliated with the Turkish ethnic minority here. They're very concerned that the Kurds are going to throw their weight around.
So a lot of -- a certain amount of latent ethnic tension here -- Paula.
ZAHN: I know Jane Arraf was just describing to us the number of different ethnic populations. She talked about the Kurds, Arabs and Christians, all basically coming together in this city. Do you have a final thought on that?
WEDEMAN: Yes it is a microcosm of the ethnic mosaic that is Iraq, because, of course, I mentioned the Kurds and the Turks. Jane mentioned to you earlier, you do have the Christians, and not only one sect of them, but you have the Caldenn (ph), and the Asyrians (ph) and many others.
Now, by and large, ethnic relations have been fairly cordial, but that may be partially a function of the fact that Saddam Hussein imposed order and never really addressed any of the differences -- Paula.
ZAHN: Ben Wedeman reporting from a very jubilant downtown Kirkuk today. Thanks so much. Let's go straight to the White House, where our own Chris Burns is standing by there.
Good morning, Chris.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
Before I get to the part of what President Bush has said in his latest video statement, let me mention something about Turkey and Kirkuk. That is quickly becoming an issue with the Turkish prime minister, Prime Minister Gul, saying that he is getting reassurances from Secretary of State Colin Powell today even that there will be U.S.-led coalition control of Kirkuk, that they will move the Peshmerga fighters out of Kirkuk. A big issue for the Turks. They are very sensitive to that, because of the Kurds on both sides of the border, they're afraid of the Kurds, millions of Kurds being empowered on their side of the border. So they are very worried about that. And there had been concerns that perhaps the Turks could send in troops into northern Iraq if that remains unstable.
So this is a very important issue. Ari Fleischer, the White House spokesman here yesterday, having said that they will insist on the territorial integrity of Iraq, that it not be taken apart, that the Kurds not seize control of northern Iraq, and that is why U.S. forces are there right now. Ari Fleischer saying, in his words, "We mean that."
Let me get to the main part about it, however, is this public relations offensive that the Bush administration is now getting involved in. If you look at the image from yesterday of the U.S. soldier draping the U.S. flag across the face of Saddam Hussein, that didn't last very long, but it lasted long enough to snap pictures, and it's on the front page of "The New York Post" saying "Freedom," but in Arab newspapers, across the Arab world, it's become the main front page issue, where they are seeing it not as freedom, but as an occupying force taking over an Arab country, very sensitive to that, and in this is what the Bush administration has to combat within and without Iraq. That is why President Bush and Tony Blair have come out with a video they will be broadcasting in the next hour or so to the Iraqi country, to the Iraqi people from a C-130 transport plane flying overhead broadcasting that.
What will they be saying? They say, we come not as occupiers, we come to help you get your freedom back, to rebuild your country, to get the aid that you need.
President Bush saying the troops won't stay forever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The goals of our coalition and clear and limited. We will end a brutal regime, whose aggression and weapons of mass destruction make it a unique threat to the world. Coalition forces will help maintain law and order, so that Iraqis can live in security. We will respect your great religious traditions whose principles of equality and compassion are essential to Iraq's future. We will help you build a peaceful and representative government that protects the rights of all citizens. And then, our military forces will leave. Iraq will go forward as a unified, independent and sovereign nation that has regained a respected place in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNS: Now, coupled with this image problem, of course, is the power vacuum. They're going to have to fill this in with an interim administration. That is a big issue, who's going to staff that -- Paula.
ZAHN: It's a huge obstacle ahead, everybody saying. Thanks so much, Chris.
We're going to go straight to Baghdad now, where our own Walt Rodgers has been following the fast-breaking developments there. He joins us from just outside the Palestine Hotel.
Good morning, Walt.
WALT RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
War has many terrible faces, but perhaps none more terrible than the face of war which the children of Baghdad have seen. I've been out walking in residential neighborhoods, talking with families. I came upon a young Iraqi American girl from the Chicago area trapped here in Baghdad, trapped during the bombing. She's 14 years old. Her name was Sara Horaea (ph). She said the bombing was terrible. She would lie in bed and cry at night. She said the very ground would shake. At one point, I've asked this young Iraqi-American girl, how does it feel to be an American here? She said, "It's weird. It's impossible to understand that the United States has such great power."
I asked Sara again, what's the worst thing you saw. She said, "The worst thing I saw was looking out my front door and seeing the street littered with the bodies of dead Iraqi soldiers." And then, she said, "We would see cats and dogs nibbling on the corpses."
Children should not have to see such things. And children of Baghdad have seen far too many images like that. Most of the residents of the city continue to say they have ample food and water, although the only electricity they seem to be getting is if they're fortunate enough to have generators. The looting does continue today, but on a much smaller scale. Perhaps there just isn't as much to steal. The strangest thing I saw looted was a horse, an Arabian stallion. That of course is about as strange as it gets -- Paula.
ZAHN: We've seen a lot of large items being taken away in wheelbarrows. Talk to us a little bit about what the chief concerns are of the people you talk to about this transition now that the country is going to have to go through in the months to come.
RODGERS: You know, it's fascinating. The concerns of Iraqi citizens are like the concerns of American citizens. They want nothing more than security. They don't want an uncertain future; they want a predictable future, and I think that's true of just about every society. The Iraqis are a very cultured and well-educated people. When you ask them, what are you afraid of? It's always the uncertainty.
Remember, in most Arab capitals like this, 50 percent of the children are under -- or 50 percent of the population are under 16 years of age. They know nothing other than Saddam Hussein and now this great black, blank future ahead of them, and they don't know what to expect, and many of them say they are afraid, particularly that Saddam will merely be replaced by another despot. One Iraqi told me that he's afraid Saddam will be replaced by yet another oil thief. That is they believe Saddam stole the riches of the country, and they're just afraid that someone else, another tyrant will come along and steal the riches.
Most of all, they would like security and peace, and one Iraqi I was speaking with just a few minutes ago said, more than anything else, he'd like a voice in his own government, Democratic aspirations, something that's been denied here -- Paula.
ZAHN: Walt Rodgers, thanks so much. We'll see you a little bit later on this morning.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
