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American Morning
War Update
Aired April 10, 2003 - 09:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Despite the extraordinary successes of the last day, what battles are still ahead for U.S.-led forces? For a look at the strategic picture right now, we're joined from CNN Center by Air Force Major General Don Shepperd, our CNN military analyst.
General, good to have you with us. Greetings from Kuwait City.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, (RET.) CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to be here, Daryn.
KAGAN: If you could take us on a tour of the country, I'd like to first start with the Iraqi capital of Baghdad. How does the U.S. military's role change now that so many U.S. troops are inside that city, but clearly, it is not a safe city yet.
SHEPPERD: Yes, let me point at the map if I can and kind of take you on a tour around the country, if that's all right.
In the Baghdad area, we're securing Baghdad. There's still a lot of fighting, pockets of resistance going on in the town itself. As you secure the city, we have it encircled, but there are still many pockets of resistance, hardcore fighters in there, a lot of fighting, probably several days of fighting left as you clear out pockets.
As we move up to the north, up Highway 1 toward Tikrit up here the ancestral home, between Tikrit, which is about 90 miles north of Baghdad and Mosul up here at the very northern tip of the country, reportedly 60,000 to 80,000 remnants of the Republican Guard, the Adnan Division, which protected Tikrit and the remaining regular army in this area, so there's a lot of fighting that can go on between Tikrit and Mosul.
Now what you're going to find is that in these areas, all of these fighters, deployed fighters out there, are going to be hit by airpower, B-52s, B-1s, tactical airpower, from A-10s, from Harriers, from all types of jets, and then the other dicey situation that has taking place up through this entire area up here is the situation developing between the Turks and the Kurds.
The United States, the coalition, does not have heavy forces, because they did not have the ability to bring them in through Turkey. So they have formed an alliance between the light infantry forces, the 173rd Airborne, and the special forces, with the Peshmerga fighters of the Kurds, and the Kurds now are controlling much of the northern part of the country up here, particularly Irbul and they moved into the Kirkuk oil fields. Now the problem is that the U.S. needs to assure the Turks that the Kurds are not going to be able to stay in this area, take over the Kirkuk oil fields to form their own economy, and it's going to be a very dicey situation, because the United States does not have many forces, and certainly no heavy forces, up in this northern area -- Daryn.
KAGAN: General, a couple of questions for you. First of all, I think a lot of people would be wondering, why would Iraqi military personnel still continue to fight when it's pretty clear, that as we've heard Iraqi officials say, the game is over.
SHEPPERD: Well, two things, because there is loyalty to the Saddam regime, and also because there's not good communication and no command and control. So they're reacting on their own. Their headquarters have disappeared. They don't have clear orders. So they're reacting on their own and defending the buddies around them.
Now another thing is, there's been reports of this MOAB, this mother of all air bursts, being deployed to the area. You could see that used in the Tikrit area, particularly, for instance, south of the town on trenches and that type of thing, with troops in the open, deployed as a psychological weapon to say, hey, we are going to show you what's coming, and then you combine it with dropped leaflets saying, the game is over, the rest of the country is gone, it's time for you to give up so you don't die in the final fighting. All of that could develop in the next couple of days -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Just quickly on this mother of all bombs, 21,000-pound bomb. How does that compare to the other weaponry we've seen used so far, so people can appreciate just how big this bomb is
SHEPPERD: That is a very big bomb, as much as five times as big as most of the stuff we have dropped in the rest of Iraq. The old daisy cutter from the Vietnam era was, and we saw it in Afghanistan, was 15,000 pounds. This is 21,000 pounds, very, very powerful blast, and we could see it used in combat for the first time -- Daryn.
KAGAN: General Don Shepperd in Atlanta. Thanks so much. We'll be checking back with you throughout the morning.
Right now, back to Paula in New York -- Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, Daryn.
We talked a little bit about what is happening in Kirkuk. Our own Ben Wedeman in the square there as he was watching a statue of Saddam Hussein fall talk about, he very much believes now that town is in the control of Kurds. He also said in a town not far from there, a few miles northwest of the city, he reported Iraqi soldiers retreating and surrendering, many wandering aimlessly around the town. He said some of the former Iraqi fighters told him they were happy to hear Saddam Hussein's regime had collapsed in Baghdad.
Now let's turn to Kevin Sites, who is just outside of Kirkuk himself, and see what he has been told. Kevin, good morning.
KEVIN SITES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
Paula, we were until the same area that Ben Wedeman was, in Kirkuk. We came in early this morning, and we saw the city kind of in joyful celebration. What we decided to do was to come out and probe the parameters around Kirkuk, and actually find out how far the Iraqis have fled outside the city. We drove by the El Halid (ph) military compound. That's a compound that we've been talking about in our three weeks of reporting, that the coalition forces have hit time and time again.
We saw many people leaving the compound, they had shed their uniforms and were moving down the road towards Tikrit. The road that is right behind me is basically the road to Tikrit. We drove down there, and we thought we were coming across some Peshmerga soldiers, but what we did when crosses the bridge, we actually ran into a group of Iraqi soldiers.
Now we can't say what unit they're with, but they were wearing red berets, and I think the red beret may be the insignia of the Republican Guard.
Now, they weren't very happy to see us. They were very concerned that we were in the area. We told them we were CNN. They weren't angry. They didn't wave their guns at us, but they made us clear the area very quickly.
And right now, we're about 3, 000 meters from where they're at. There's a river at that juncture, and they are actually loading boats and trucks, and it looks like they're trying to make an escape from this area.
Now we just also heard the sounds of B-52 bombers nearby. The American soldiers in this area may know that these soldiers are here and may be pinpointing their position. So at this point, although Kirkuk has been taken, although it is in the hands of the Peshmerga and U.S. special forces, here on the outskirts, 20 kilometers southwest of the city, there is still an Iraqi frontline. How long that will hold we're not sure, but they're here and they're here in force -- Paula.
ZAHN: Kevin, can you give us a sense of how many Iraqi forces you're talking about who are in retreat?
SITES: Well, as we were driving down this road, you can see just dozens of soldiers moving down. Now, they don't look like soldiers anymore. They've shed their clothing, but we stopped and talked to them, and our translator is convinced that they're Iraqi soldiers. They seemed very nervous when we were talking to them.
Now when we actually crossed the bridge, we saw the insignia and the uniforms of Iraqi soldiers. In fact, our translator, Tafiq (ph), said, who are you? He says, "We are the Iraqis." They said that to us point blank. So in terms of the actual numbers there, we saw a few dozen milling around there, but it looks like they're starting to load up boats and trucks. They obviously moved out of the military compound near where we are and are heading south. This area, we are told, is not yet in Peshmerga hands, that the Iraqi frontline is really just about 2,000, 3,000 meters from where I'm standing right now.
ZAHN: Kevin, you also said it was your perspective that they may be were going to try to escape this area. How hard will that be for them to do?
SITES: Well, Paula, if the U.S. special forces that are on the ground here have spotted them, I think it's going to be very difficult. It's an open road to Tikrit. It could be like the highway of death, if they decided to take that without -- you know, without proper safe passage, but they also, as I said, are loading boats. There is a river route that runs into Tikrit, as well. That may be one of the options.
But what most of the men here seem to be doing are shedding their uniforms. We saw boots by the side of the road, uniforms, full uniforms, and as I said, lots of men dressed in civilian clothing heading south. I don't think it's going to be a safe passage, but then again, I also don't think U.S. forces may be aware they're this close to Kirkuk, that they are at this juncture right now.
ZAHN: They might be now after this report. Kevin Sites, thank you so much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 10, 2003 - 09:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Despite the extraordinary successes of the last day, what battles are still ahead for U.S.-led forces? For a look at the strategic picture right now, we're joined from CNN Center by Air Force Major General Don Shepperd, our CNN military analyst.
General, good to have you with us. Greetings from Kuwait City.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, (RET.) CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to be here, Daryn.
KAGAN: If you could take us on a tour of the country, I'd like to first start with the Iraqi capital of Baghdad. How does the U.S. military's role change now that so many U.S. troops are inside that city, but clearly, it is not a safe city yet.
SHEPPERD: Yes, let me point at the map if I can and kind of take you on a tour around the country, if that's all right.
In the Baghdad area, we're securing Baghdad. There's still a lot of fighting, pockets of resistance going on in the town itself. As you secure the city, we have it encircled, but there are still many pockets of resistance, hardcore fighters in there, a lot of fighting, probably several days of fighting left as you clear out pockets.
As we move up to the north, up Highway 1 toward Tikrit up here the ancestral home, between Tikrit, which is about 90 miles north of Baghdad and Mosul up here at the very northern tip of the country, reportedly 60,000 to 80,000 remnants of the Republican Guard, the Adnan Division, which protected Tikrit and the remaining regular army in this area, so there's a lot of fighting that can go on between Tikrit and Mosul.
Now what you're going to find is that in these areas, all of these fighters, deployed fighters out there, are going to be hit by airpower, B-52s, B-1s, tactical airpower, from A-10s, from Harriers, from all types of jets, and then the other dicey situation that has taking place up through this entire area up here is the situation developing between the Turks and the Kurds.
The United States, the coalition, does not have heavy forces, because they did not have the ability to bring them in through Turkey. So they have formed an alliance between the light infantry forces, the 173rd Airborne, and the special forces, with the Peshmerga fighters of the Kurds, and the Kurds now are controlling much of the northern part of the country up here, particularly Irbul and they moved into the Kirkuk oil fields. Now the problem is that the U.S. needs to assure the Turks that the Kurds are not going to be able to stay in this area, take over the Kirkuk oil fields to form their own economy, and it's going to be a very dicey situation, because the United States does not have many forces, and certainly no heavy forces, up in this northern area -- Daryn.
KAGAN: General, a couple of questions for you. First of all, I think a lot of people would be wondering, why would Iraqi military personnel still continue to fight when it's pretty clear, that as we've heard Iraqi officials say, the game is over.
SHEPPERD: Well, two things, because there is loyalty to the Saddam regime, and also because there's not good communication and no command and control. So they're reacting on their own. Their headquarters have disappeared. They don't have clear orders. So they're reacting on their own and defending the buddies around them.
Now another thing is, there's been reports of this MOAB, this mother of all air bursts, being deployed to the area. You could see that used in the Tikrit area, particularly, for instance, south of the town on trenches and that type of thing, with troops in the open, deployed as a psychological weapon to say, hey, we are going to show you what's coming, and then you combine it with dropped leaflets saying, the game is over, the rest of the country is gone, it's time for you to give up so you don't die in the final fighting. All of that could develop in the next couple of days -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Just quickly on this mother of all bombs, 21,000-pound bomb. How does that compare to the other weaponry we've seen used so far, so people can appreciate just how big this bomb is
SHEPPERD: That is a very big bomb, as much as five times as big as most of the stuff we have dropped in the rest of Iraq. The old daisy cutter from the Vietnam era was, and we saw it in Afghanistan, was 15,000 pounds. This is 21,000 pounds, very, very powerful blast, and we could see it used in combat for the first time -- Daryn.
KAGAN: General Don Shepperd in Atlanta. Thanks so much. We'll be checking back with you throughout the morning.
Right now, back to Paula in New York -- Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, Daryn.
We talked a little bit about what is happening in Kirkuk. Our own Ben Wedeman in the square there as he was watching a statue of Saddam Hussein fall talk about, he very much believes now that town is in the control of Kurds. He also said in a town not far from there, a few miles northwest of the city, he reported Iraqi soldiers retreating and surrendering, many wandering aimlessly around the town. He said some of the former Iraqi fighters told him they were happy to hear Saddam Hussein's regime had collapsed in Baghdad.
Now let's turn to Kevin Sites, who is just outside of Kirkuk himself, and see what he has been told. Kevin, good morning.
KEVIN SITES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
Paula, we were until the same area that Ben Wedeman was, in Kirkuk. We came in early this morning, and we saw the city kind of in joyful celebration. What we decided to do was to come out and probe the parameters around Kirkuk, and actually find out how far the Iraqis have fled outside the city. We drove by the El Halid (ph) military compound. That's a compound that we've been talking about in our three weeks of reporting, that the coalition forces have hit time and time again.
We saw many people leaving the compound, they had shed their uniforms and were moving down the road towards Tikrit. The road that is right behind me is basically the road to Tikrit. We drove down there, and we thought we were coming across some Peshmerga soldiers, but what we did when crosses the bridge, we actually ran into a group of Iraqi soldiers.
Now we can't say what unit they're with, but they were wearing red berets, and I think the red beret may be the insignia of the Republican Guard.
Now, they weren't very happy to see us. They were very concerned that we were in the area. We told them we were CNN. They weren't angry. They didn't wave their guns at us, but they made us clear the area very quickly.
And right now, we're about 3, 000 meters from where they're at. There's a river at that juncture, and they are actually loading boats and trucks, and it looks like they're trying to make an escape from this area.
Now we just also heard the sounds of B-52 bombers nearby. The American soldiers in this area may know that these soldiers are here and may be pinpointing their position. So at this point, although Kirkuk has been taken, although it is in the hands of the Peshmerga and U.S. special forces, here on the outskirts, 20 kilometers southwest of the city, there is still an Iraqi frontline. How long that will hold we're not sure, but they're here and they're here in force -- Paula.
ZAHN: Kevin, can you give us a sense of how many Iraqi forces you're talking about who are in retreat?
SITES: Well, as we were driving down this road, you can see just dozens of soldiers moving down. Now, they don't look like soldiers anymore. They've shed their clothing, but we stopped and talked to them, and our translator is convinced that they're Iraqi soldiers. They seemed very nervous when we were talking to them.
Now when we actually crossed the bridge, we saw the insignia and the uniforms of Iraqi soldiers. In fact, our translator, Tafiq (ph), said, who are you? He says, "We are the Iraqis." They said that to us point blank. So in terms of the actual numbers there, we saw a few dozen milling around there, but it looks like they're starting to load up boats and trucks. They obviously moved out of the military compound near where we are and are heading south. This area, we are told, is not yet in Peshmerga hands, that the Iraqi frontline is really just about 2,000, 3,000 meters from where I'm standing right now.
ZAHN: Kevin, you also said it was your perspective that they may be were going to try to escape this area. How hard will that be for them to do?
SITES: Well, Paula, if the U.S. special forces that are on the ground here have spotted them, I think it's going to be very difficult. It's an open road to Tikrit. It could be like the highway of death, if they decided to take that without -- you know, without proper safe passage, but they also, as I said, are loading boats. There is a river route that runs into Tikrit, as well. That may be one of the options.
But what most of the men here seem to be doing are shedding their uniforms. We saw boots by the side of the road, uniforms, full uniforms, and as I said, lots of men dressed in civilian clothing heading south. I don't think it's going to be a safe passage, but then again, I also don't think U.S. forces may be aware they're this close to Kirkuk, that they are at this juncture right now.
ZAHN: They might be now after this report. Kevin Sites, thank you so much.
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