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American Morning

Discussion with Fareed Zakaria

Aired April 11, 2003 - 08:23   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now that Saddam Hussein's regime has fallen, is Democracy the answer for Iraq and its people? In his book, "The Future of Freedom: The Liberal Democracy at Home and Abroad," Fareed Zakaria looks at political trends worldwide and the crisis of democracy that may lie ahead.
He joins us now to talk about democracy and Iraq's future.

Good to see you.

FAREED ZAKARIA, "THE FUTURE OF FREEDOM": Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Good to see you on a different network for a change, too.

ZAKARIA: That's what happens when you sell books.

ZAHN: I know. Let's talk about what Barbara Starr was reporting from the pentagon. She says there is an acknowledgment from those officials that there are simply not enough ground troops in place, and particularly in Baghdad, to control what our Nic Robertson is saying is a stage of anarchy in some parts of Iraq.

Do you think the administration underestimated the day after?

ZAKARIA: I think because the day after came so fast and so suddenly in a way. I think that there's been a pattern here, not just with this administration, but over the last 10 years, Bosnia, Kosovo, East Timor, Afghanistan, where we don't quite recognize that when the old order collapses, you very quickly have to rush in and fill it with some kind of new order. In the short-term, that's going to have to mean the American military.

But the key question, which I try to address in the book, is what do you do after that? What kind of authority do you create in a society going through this kind of transition?

ZAHN: And how do you know that the local Iraqi citizens who will make up this government are, in fact, interested in democracy? There's no proof of that.

ZAKARIA: Well, the key here is the only way to get that kind of legitimate government, to have it look good, is to hold elections. But if you hold elections, you stop the whole process of building a rule of law, creating courts, creating administration. We've seen in the past, in Bosnia, for example, you've held elections and all of the old ethnic thugs get into power, because they have organization, they have money and they stop the process of genuine building of democracy. There is this tension here which is the only way to make this look good is in some way get legitimate Iraqi authority, but the faster you get that, the more likely it is you stop this process.

ZAHN: So what do you think of this interim government? You've got Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz saying that American and British military forces would play the leading role in setting up an Iraqi government, and then later draw civilians into the process. Is that going to work?

ZAKARIA: I think it will work if it's truly broad based, if it's truly consensual. You know, you reach out to all kinds of different people, try and include them in creating of a Constitution, which could take a few years. So you iron out all of the issues. What I point out in the book is the places where you've had very quick transitions have not worked. It's the places where you've had a kind of inclusive process, where nobody feels excluded that it works.

But throughout this period, Paula, somebody is going to have to control law and order on the ground, and that will still be the American military, and the person who controls the American military will still be the most powerful person in Iraq, whatever is going on with all of this interim government.

ZAHN: And do you think the American public, given where the polls are right now, the latest CNN/"USA Today" poll showing 72 percent of Americans support this war effort, will they have the patience to hang in there to support this effort over a two-year period, just to bring this fledging democracy you're talking about to the forefront?

ZAKARIA: I think it will be a more like a 20-year period.

ZAHN: But just the initial stages, it will be two years before you can even get a government up and running.

ZAKARIA: I think if led well, the American people have shown incredible resilience. I mean, we've stayed for years and years in Japan, in Germany. Our troops are still in South Korea, and Germany and Japan. So as long as you present this right, this is the biggest foreign policy project the United States has taken on since the Vietnam War. It is going to dominate the next two or three administrations.

ZAHN: Fareed Zakaria, thank you for stopping by to talk about "The Future of Freedom." I don't when you found time to write this book. You'll still busy filing columns.

ZAKARIA: Thank you, Paula. Real pleasure.

ZAHN: Congratulations.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired April 11, 2003 - 08:23   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now that Saddam Hussein's regime has fallen, is Democracy the answer for Iraq and its people? In his book, "The Future of Freedom: The Liberal Democracy at Home and Abroad," Fareed Zakaria looks at political trends worldwide and the crisis of democracy that may lie ahead.
He joins us now to talk about democracy and Iraq's future.

Good to see you.

FAREED ZAKARIA, "THE FUTURE OF FREEDOM": Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Good to see you on a different network for a change, too.

ZAKARIA: That's what happens when you sell books.

ZAHN: I know. Let's talk about what Barbara Starr was reporting from the pentagon. She says there is an acknowledgment from those officials that there are simply not enough ground troops in place, and particularly in Baghdad, to control what our Nic Robertson is saying is a stage of anarchy in some parts of Iraq.

Do you think the administration underestimated the day after?

ZAKARIA: I think because the day after came so fast and so suddenly in a way. I think that there's been a pattern here, not just with this administration, but over the last 10 years, Bosnia, Kosovo, East Timor, Afghanistan, where we don't quite recognize that when the old order collapses, you very quickly have to rush in and fill it with some kind of new order. In the short-term, that's going to have to mean the American military.

But the key question, which I try to address in the book, is what do you do after that? What kind of authority do you create in a society going through this kind of transition?

ZAHN: And how do you know that the local Iraqi citizens who will make up this government are, in fact, interested in democracy? There's no proof of that.

ZAKARIA: Well, the key here is the only way to get that kind of legitimate government, to have it look good, is to hold elections. But if you hold elections, you stop the whole process of building a rule of law, creating courts, creating administration. We've seen in the past, in Bosnia, for example, you've held elections and all of the old ethnic thugs get into power, because they have organization, they have money and they stop the process of genuine building of democracy. There is this tension here which is the only way to make this look good is in some way get legitimate Iraqi authority, but the faster you get that, the more likely it is you stop this process.

ZAHN: So what do you think of this interim government? You've got Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz saying that American and British military forces would play the leading role in setting up an Iraqi government, and then later draw civilians into the process. Is that going to work?

ZAKARIA: I think it will work if it's truly broad based, if it's truly consensual. You know, you reach out to all kinds of different people, try and include them in creating of a Constitution, which could take a few years. So you iron out all of the issues. What I point out in the book is the places where you've had very quick transitions have not worked. It's the places where you've had a kind of inclusive process, where nobody feels excluded that it works.

But throughout this period, Paula, somebody is going to have to control law and order on the ground, and that will still be the American military, and the person who controls the American military will still be the most powerful person in Iraq, whatever is going on with all of this interim government.

ZAHN: And do you think the American public, given where the polls are right now, the latest CNN/"USA Today" poll showing 72 percent of Americans support this war effort, will they have the patience to hang in there to support this effort over a two-year period, just to bring this fledging democracy you're talking about to the forefront?

ZAKARIA: I think it will be a more like a 20-year period.

ZAHN: But just the initial stages, it will be two years before you can even get a government up and running.

ZAKARIA: I think if led well, the American people have shown incredible resilience. I mean, we've stayed for years and years in Japan, in Germany. Our troops are still in South Korea, and Germany and Japan. So as long as you present this right, this is the biggest foreign policy project the United States has taken on since the Vietnam War. It is going to dominate the next two or three administrations.

ZAHN: Fareed Zakaria, thank you for stopping by to talk about "The Future of Freedom." I don't when you found time to write this book. You'll still busy filing columns.

ZAKARIA: Thank you, Paula. Real pleasure.

ZAHN: Congratulations.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com