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American Morning
Interview With Fmr. Weapons Inspector Jonathan Tucker
Aired April 15, 2003 - 08:22 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. forces in southern Iraq dug up 11 chemical and biological weapons laboratories yesterday. Those labs could be attached to trucks or trains. Troops from the 101st Airborne division found the labs buried near Karbala.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. BENJAMIN FREAKLEY, 101ST AIRBORNE: The 2nd Brigade found 11 buried Conexes, large metal 20 by probably 20 foot vans buried in the ground. They are dual use chemical labs, biological and chemical. About a thousand pounds of documentation were found in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: That -- that is what we know. A lot we don't know just yet, though. U.N. inspectors checked that site back in February, said they found nothing suspicious at the time.
Jonathan Tucker was a U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq back in 1995. He's an exert in chemical and biological weapons. Back with us this morning live in D.C.
Good to see you, Jonathan. Good morning.
JONATHAN TUCKER, FMR. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: I mentioned that there's a lot we don't know. What does it tell you the fact these were buried at the time near the town of Karbala?
TUCKER: Well, that in itself is suspicious. But I think it's too early to come to a definitive judgment about the purpose of these facilities, whether they were involved in weapons development or production. It's also confusing that there were chemical and biological types of equipment in these facilities.
HEMMER: Why that is confusing?
TUCKER: Well, one would expect they would either be chemical or biological. There would be very different types of equipment that would be involved in chemical production as opposed to biological.
HEMMER: So I figure you're bowing to have to rifle through a thousand pounds of document. In that you could find -- what? A smoking gun maybe? Or maybe not? TUCKER: Well, if you found a cookbook, for example, for the production of sarin gas or anthrax bacteria, that would be a clear indication. Also, if there were traces of either chemical or biological agents that could be found through sampling and analysis, that would also be a clear indicator of the purpose.
But I think at this point, it's too early to come to a judgment.
HEMMER: Jonathan, we've been told from the outset through Central Command -- seems like they repeat it every time they come for a briefing in the morning -- that without the help of former nuclear, chemical, biological scientists in Iraq, the chances of finding these weapons of mass destruction, if they're still there, if they do exist in Iraq, drops considerably.
With the regime gone, what would prevent a scientist from coming forward now?
TUCKER: Well, I think there's concern about the possibility of brain drain. That is, that former weapons scientists in Iraq might be recruited either by other states in the region or by terrorist organizations which could offer them very attractive sums of money to go work for them. So I think that is a real concern that will have to be dealt with.
HEMMER: Interesting response.
Let's talk about Syria quickly in the short time we have left right now. How widely known was the chemical weapons program the White House alleges? How widely was that known?
TUCKER: It's generally been known in open source information for several years that Syria has a sophisticated chemical warfare capability, including both mustard gas and nerve agents such as sarin and VX, that they have the capacity to deliver these weapons with long-range SCUD missiles.
But Syria's not alone in the region in having such weapons. So the question is, Why the focus now, given that Syria has been known to have these weapons for many years and has -- in fact, the Pentagon publication "Proliferation, Threat and Response" has stated for many years that Syria has these weapons.
HEMMER: What's -- what's is your theory on that then?
TUCKER: Yes.
HEMMER: Why now? Why the attention?
TUCKER: Well, I think there is pressure on Syria because of allegations by the Bush administration that they may be harboring Iraqi officials. And also the sense that they are in now a strong position to intimidate other countries in the region that support terrorism, that have weapons of mass destruction. So I think it's a target of opportunity.
HEMMER: Jonathan Tucker, former weapons inspector, thanks for sharing with us. Appreciate it.
TUCKER: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 15, 2003 - 08:22 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. forces in southern Iraq dug up 11 chemical and biological weapons laboratories yesterday. Those labs could be attached to trucks or trains. Troops from the 101st Airborne division found the labs buried near Karbala.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. BENJAMIN FREAKLEY, 101ST AIRBORNE: The 2nd Brigade found 11 buried Conexes, large metal 20 by probably 20 foot vans buried in the ground. They are dual use chemical labs, biological and chemical. About a thousand pounds of documentation were found in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: That -- that is what we know. A lot we don't know just yet, though. U.N. inspectors checked that site back in February, said they found nothing suspicious at the time.
Jonathan Tucker was a U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq back in 1995. He's an exert in chemical and biological weapons. Back with us this morning live in D.C.
Good to see you, Jonathan. Good morning.
JONATHAN TUCKER, FMR. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: I mentioned that there's a lot we don't know. What does it tell you the fact these were buried at the time near the town of Karbala?
TUCKER: Well, that in itself is suspicious. But I think it's too early to come to a definitive judgment about the purpose of these facilities, whether they were involved in weapons development or production. It's also confusing that there were chemical and biological types of equipment in these facilities.
HEMMER: Why that is confusing?
TUCKER: Well, one would expect they would either be chemical or biological. There would be very different types of equipment that would be involved in chemical production as opposed to biological.
HEMMER: So I figure you're bowing to have to rifle through a thousand pounds of document. In that you could find -- what? A smoking gun maybe? Or maybe not? TUCKER: Well, if you found a cookbook, for example, for the production of sarin gas or anthrax bacteria, that would be a clear indication. Also, if there were traces of either chemical or biological agents that could be found through sampling and analysis, that would also be a clear indicator of the purpose.
But I think at this point, it's too early to come to a judgment.
HEMMER: Jonathan, we've been told from the outset through Central Command -- seems like they repeat it every time they come for a briefing in the morning -- that without the help of former nuclear, chemical, biological scientists in Iraq, the chances of finding these weapons of mass destruction, if they're still there, if they do exist in Iraq, drops considerably.
With the regime gone, what would prevent a scientist from coming forward now?
TUCKER: Well, I think there's concern about the possibility of brain drain. That is, that former weapons scientists in Iraq might be recruited either by other states in the region or by terrorist organizations which could offer them very attractive sums of money to go work for them. So I think that is a real concern that will have to be dealt with.
HEMMER: Interesting response.
Let's talk about Syria quickly in the short time we have left right now. How widely known was the chemical weapons program the White House alleges? How widely was that known?
TUCKER: It's generally been known in open source information for several years that Syria has a sophisticated chemical warfare capability, including both mustard gas and nerve agents such as sarin and VX, that they have the capacity to deliver these weapons with long-range SCUD missiles.
But Syria's not alone in the region in having such weapons. So the question is, Why the focus now, given that Syria has been known to have these weapons for many years and has -- in fact, the Pentagon publication "Proliferation, Threat and Response" has stated for many years that Syria has these weapons.
HEMMER: What's -- what's is your theory on that then?
TUCKER: Yes.
HEMMER: Why now? Why the attention?
TUCKER: Well, I think there is pressure on Syria because of allegations by the Bush administration that they may be harboring Iraqi officials. And also the sense that they are in now a strong position to intimidate other countries in the region that support terrorism, that have weapons of mass destruction. So I think it's a target of opportunity.
HEMMER: Jonathan Tucker, former weapons inspector, thanks for sharing with us. Appreciate it.
TUCKER: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
