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American Morning

Treasures Lost

Aired April 16, 2003 - 08:52   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Iraq's National Museum is one of the war's casualties. This is how the museum looked on Saturday. Show you picture here, a videotape after being battered by fighting and ransacked by looters. The world's leading archaeologist now holding an emergency meeting tomorrow in Paris, but some experts say it may already be too late to discover lost treasures worth billions of dollars.
Elizabeth Stone, professor of archaeology and anthropology at the State University of New York in Stony Brook, is quite familiar with the items that were inside that museum. She's live here in New York.

Good morning to you, professor. Nice to see you.

It is said to be by some the greatest museum in the world? Is that hyperbole, or is that really...

ELIZABETH STONE, SUNY STONY BROOK: I would say it's one of the top five, top 10.

HEMMER: Is this the Ermitage (ph) of St. Petersburg? Is this the Luve (ph) of Paris? Where would you put in terms of that category?

STONE: It's right up there. Perhaps the best parallel would be the museum in Cairo, in terms of a museum that encapsulates one our earliest civilizations.

HEMMER: Well, listen, I know the big effort right now is to try and recover this. Before we talk about this, there are a few pictures we're going to show people. There is an Aruf (ph) lady with a limestone head. There is a head of Sargon (ph) described in bronze, various clay tablets from Mesopotamia. As we roll through some of these pictures, quick brief on these in terms of history tells us what?

STONE: OK, well, "The Earth Lady" is probably the first piece of sculpture done by a professional anywhere in the world. The thing about Mesopotamia, it had the world's first cities, first writing, first professionals, and Earth Lady is a really a professional piece, the first one ever of somebody who, she never really comes off in a one-dimensional picture. But through three dimension, she's a femme fatale.

HEMMER: When you look at these images located from this museum and you talk about the efforts to recover them, is that a lost cause, or do you see it as possible? STONE: I think some of the stuff we might be able to get back, especially stuff that -- there were professionals, and there was the mobs, and I think if people gives rewards to the mob and amnesty, we might be able to get some of the stuff back. But the professionals were clearly going in there. They knew what they wanted. They knew what they were talking. They probably already have people lined up who want to buy them.

HEMMER: Why do you believe they knew. Somebody had said that there some reports that indicated they went exactly to the spot of the real and the authentic piece, as opposed to a copy?

STONE: Absolutely.

HEMMER: Is that what suggested they were pros?

STONE: Plus the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) left behind, and only a pro would know which were real and which were not, and they knew how to blow up the vaults. I mean, a lot of stuff were in secure vaults in the basement.

HEMMER: Have you ever seen a situation where artifacts like these have been taken and stolen, and then recovered?

STONE: Well, no, I'm afraid. I mean, not really, no. Not this type of quantity. And we certainly know that things like the Tici (ph) was taken from the Garden (ph) Museum and has never been seen again. I mean, somebody has it. It's somewhere.

HEMMER: You sound somewhat pessimistic. I'm thinking that that's based on experience, and knowing that whoever went inside there wanted to take it, and keep it and run for a long time?

STONE: Right, and 4,000 objects were taken in the first Gulf War, in the uprising there, and I think about four or five pieces have been recovered.

HEMMER: Well, you talk about national identity, the Iraqis are quite proud of the Fertile Crescent, the ancient city of Orr (ph) and everything that goes on between the Tigris and the Euphrates. I would think in terms of national pride, trying to get this country back on its feet again, this is a strong and large symbol, would you agree?

STONE: I think absolutely. Perhaps it's the -- the question is what kind of symbol are you going to use to unify these groups that are separated by religion, they are separated by ethnic group. All of those things have happened since Mesopotamia. But when Mesopotamia was functioning, the whole area, north and south, they used the same writing, they spoke the same language, they had the same belief system, and they even had democratic institutions, in term of assembles and councils. If you want to create a democratic, unified Iraq, that's the symbol you want, and you've lost it.

HEMMER: And the effort right now, they've got their work cut out for them, we know that.

STONE: Right.

HEMMER: Professor Elizabeth Stone, SUNY, Stony Brook, New York.

STONE: Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired April 16, 2003 - 08:52   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Iraq's National Museum is one of the war's casualties. This is how the museum looked on Saturday. Show you picture here, a videotape after being battered by fighting and ransacked by looters. The world's leading archaeologist now holding an emergency meeting tomorrow in Paris, but some experts say it may already be too late to discover lost treasures worth billions of dollars.
Elizabeth Stone, professor of archaeology and anthropology at the State University of New York in Stony Brook, is quite familiar with the items that were inside that museum. She's live here in New York.

Good morning to you, professor. Nice to see you.

It is said to be by some the greatest museum in the world? Is that hyperbole, or is that really...

ELIZABETH STONE, SUNY STONY BROOK: I would say it's one of the top five, top 10.

HEMMER: Is this the Ermitage (ph) of St. Petersburg? Is this the Luve (ph) of Paris? Where would you put in terms of that category?

STONE: It's right up there. Perhaps the best parallel would be the museum in Cairo, in terms of a museum that encapsulates one our earliest civilizations.

HEMMER: Well, listen, I know the big effort right now is to try and recover this. Before we talk about this, there are a few pictures we're going to show people. There is an Aruf (ph) lady with a limestone head. There is a head of Sargon (ph) described in bronze, various clay tablets from Mesopotamia. As we roll through some of these pictures, quick brief on these in terms of history tells us what?

STONE: OK, well, "The Earth Lady" is probably the first piece of sculpture done by a professional anywhere in the world. The thing about Mesopotamia, it had the world's first cities, first writing, first professionals, and Earth Lady is a really a professional piece, the first one ever of somebody who, she never really comes off in a one-dimensional picture. But through three dimension, she's a femme fatale.

HEMMER: When you look at these images located from this museum and you talk about the efforts to recover them, is that a lost cause, or do you see it as possible? STONE: I think some of the stuff we might be able to get back, especially stuff that -- there were professionals, and there was the mobs, and I think if people gives rewards to the mob and amnesty, we might be able to get some of the stuff back. But the professionals were clearly going in there. They knew what they wanted. They knew what they were talking. They probably already have people lined up who want to buy them.

HEMMER: Why do you believe they knew. Somebody had said that there some reports that indicated they went exactly to the spot of the real and the authentic piece, as opposed to a copy?

STONE: Absolutely.

HEMMER: Is that what suggested they were pros?

STONE: Plus the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) left behind, and only a pro would know which were real and which were not, and they knew how to blow up the vaults. I mean, a lot of stuff were in secure vaults in the basement.

HEMMER: Have you ever seen a situation where artifacts like these have been taken and stolen, and then recovered?

STONE: Well, no, I'm afraid. I mean, not really, no. Not this type of quantity. And we certainly know that things like the Tici (ph) was taken from the Garden (ph) Museum and has never been seen again. I mean, somebody has it. It's somewhere.

HEMMER: You sound somewhat pessimistic. I'm thinking that that's based on experience, and knowing that whoever went inside there wanted to take it, and keep it and run for a long time?

STONE: Right, and 4,000 objects were taken in the first Gulf War, in the uprising there, and I think about four or five pieces have been recovered.

HEMMER: Well, you talk about national identity, the Iraqis are quite proud of the Fertile Crescent, the ancient city of Orr (ph) and everything that goes on between the Tigris and the Euphrates. I would think in terms of national pride, trying to get this country back on its feet again, this is a strong and large symbol, would you agree?

STONE: I think absolutely. Perhaps it's the -- the question is what kind of symbol are you going to use to unify these groups that are separated by religion, they are separated by ethnic group. All of those things have happened since Mesopotamia. But when Mesopotamia was functioning, the whole area, north and south, they used the same writing, they spoke the same language, they had the same belief system, and they even had democratic institutions, in term of assembles and councils. If you want to create a democratic, unified Iraq, that's the symbol you want, and you've lost it.

HEMMER: And the effort right now, they've got their work cut out for them, we know that.

STONE: Right.

HEMMER: Professor Elizabeth Stone, SUNY, Stony Brook, New York.

STONE: Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com