Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

New Saddam Tape?

Aired April 18, 2003 - 09:50   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Con Coughlin is here in New York City and the author of several books on Saddam Hussein, "The King of Terror," and also "The Secret Life."
Con, good morning to you. Nice to see you.

CON COUGHLIN, AUTHOR, "SADDAM HUSSEIN: KING OF TERROR": Good morning.

HEMMER: I know you're running quite fresh right now watching this videotape from Abu Dhabi Television. It is said this was taken April 9th, nine days ago. No way to verify it. We don't know. If it is true, let's make the assumption that this is April 9th, nine days ago, why does Saddam Hussein go out in this neighborhood in Baghdad?

COUGHLIN: Well, it's a very interesting question. Saddam has been playing mind games right the way through the whole conflict and, clearly, it's a fantastic propaganda coup for Saddam to go out in the streets. It does look like Saddam. And the people around him are clearly claiming him as Saddam and, you know, as I said, I mean I have been saying all along that you know, Bill, I think Saddam survived that attack. And this looks like the genuine -- this is a run-down neighborhood of Baghdad. Clearly, there are a lot of Baathist minders around Saddam, making sure none of the Iraqis get to him and do the job that the Americans have not been able to do at the moment.

HEMMER: Based on his history, how often does he do that?

COUGHLIN: Well, this is a fascinating thing. Before the war started, Saddam had not been seen on the streets for Baghdad for years. I mean, this is the whole reason he used the doubles. Saddam is afraid of the Iraqi public. He hid himself away. He didn't want anybody to see him. And suddenly, the war starts and we've had two walkabouts in the space of two weeks.

HEMMER: If this is April 9th, you knew the tanks were getting close despite the fact that Al Sahaf, the information minister, was saying about tanks, what tanks. You knew the Marines came in that day to central Baghdad. What is the incentive for him right now to try and incite his own followers, how many there were at the time, anyway, to, again, get behind him and repel the advance of the U.S. forces knowing at this point that it was pretty much a done deal, this war was going to be over sometime very soon?

COUGHLIN: The bottom line, Bill, is Saddam could never fight a conventional war. He could not match us on his terms. He doesn't have the bombs, the planes, the tanks. He has to play a different kind of game in trying to come out of alive. He wants to survive this conflict. He knows how difficult Iraq is to lead as a country. We're already seeing Mosul in the south, a lot of problems developing there. Saddam knows that he has pockets of loyalty. If we are not successful in putting Iraq back together again, what...

HEMMER: Here is the other point, because we are told these former Baath Party leaders and former Iraqis are helping the U.S. and British locate, like the home in Basra with Chemical Ali, his headquarters in Baghdad, where it was known this was a gathering place for Baath Party leadership, whether or not Saddam Hussein was there or not, we don't know. Quite possibly, if the videotape's legitimate, he was not there and has survived that. But knowing that there are Iraqis who are willing to turn on him right now, his sense of paranoia climbs where?

COUGHLIN: He's always paranoid, Bill. He lives in a perpetual state of paranoia. It might be quite high on the Richter Scale at the moment. But the other issue here, which is a very important issue, is there is this, throughout the conflict, there has been this propaganda battle between Washington and Baghdad.

Now, a week ago, CENTCOM told us that Bazan Al Tikriti (ph), Saddam's half brother was killed, he was killed in a bombing raid, and yesterday, they arrested him, so he's alive. We've been told twice that Saddam was killed in attacks on his bunkers. Certainly, he survived the first one. It now looks as though he survived the second one.

Only two days ago, people in Washington were insisting Saddam was dead. Well, this is getting quite serious. Either we are going after Saddam, and we have to capture him and to face up to that, because otherwise, we're going to start losing the battle perhaps in the minds in Baghdad. People won't believe what we're saying.

HEMMER: And a lot of people who are doubters will say Osama bin Laden is still out there, has never been captured, touched by a U.S. bomb Perhaps it's the same case in Iraq, but we do not know.

COUGHLIN: We don't know, and this is the fascinating thing. And if Saddam is alive, he will be relishing every moment of this.

HEMMER: Indeed on that point.

COUGHLIN: Thank you, Con.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired April 18, 2003 - 09:50   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Con Coughlin is here in New York City and the author of several books on Saddam Hussein, "The King of Terror," and also "The Secret Life."
Con, good morning to you. Nice to see you.

CON COUGHLIN, AUTHOR, "SADDAM HUSSEIN: KING OF TERROR": Good morning.

HEMMER: I know you're running quite fresh right now watching this videotape from Abu Dhabi Television. It is said this was taken April 9th, nine days ago. No way to verify it. We don't know. If it is true, let's make the assumption that this is April 9th, nine days ago, why does Saddam Hussein go out in this neighborhood in Baghdad?

COUGHLIN: Well, it's a very interesting question. Saddam has been playing mind games right the way through the whole conflict and, clearly, it's a fantastic propaganda coup for Saddam to go out in the streets. It does look like Saddam. And the people around him are clearly claiming him as Saddam and, you know, as I said, I mean I have been saying all along that you know, Bill, I think Saddam survived that attack. And this looks like the genuine -- this is a run-down neighborhood of Baghdad. Clearly, there are a lot of Baathist minders around Saddam, making sure none of the Iraqis get to him and do the job that the Americans have not been able to do at the moment.

HEMMER: Based on his history, how often does he do that?

COUGHLIN: Well, this is a fascinating thing. Before the war started, Saddam had not been seen on the streets for Baghdad for years. I mean, this is the whole reason he used the doubles. Saddam is afraid of the Iraqi public. He hid himself away. He didn't want anybody to see him. And suddenly, the war starts and we've had two walkabouts in the space of two weeks.

HEMMER: If this is April 9th, you knew the tanks were getting close despite the fact that Al Sahaf, the information minister, was saying about tanks, what tanks. You knew the Marines came in that day to central Baghdad. What is the incentive for him right now to try and incite his own followers, how many there were at the time, anyway, to, again, get behind him and repel the advance of the U.S. forces knowing at this point that it was pretty much a done deal, this war was going to be over sometime very soon?

COUGHLIN: The bottom line, Bill, is Saddam could never fight a conventional war. He could not match us on his terms. He doesn't have the bombs, the planes, the tanks. He has to play a different kind of game in trying to come out of alive. He wants to survive this conflict. He knows how difficult Iraq is to lead as a country. We're already seeing Mosul in the south, a lot of problems developing there. Saddam knows that he has pockets of loyalty. If we are not successful in putting Iraq back together again, what...

HEMMER: Here is the other point, because we are told these former Baath Party leaders and former Iraqis are helping the U.S. and British locate, like the home in Basra with Chemical Ali, his headquarters in Baghdad, where it was known this was a gathering place for Baath Party leadership, whether or not Saddam Hussein was there or not, we don't know. Quite possibly, if the videotape's legitimate, he was not there and has survived that. But knowing that there are Iraqis who are willing to turn on him right now, his sense of paranoia climbs where?

COUGHLIN: He's always paranoid, Bill. He lives in a perpetual state of paranoia. It might be quite high on the Richter Scale at the moment. But the other issue here, which is a very important issue, is there is this, throughout the conflict, there has been this propaganda battle between Washington and Baghdad.

Now, a week ago, CENTCOM told us that Bazan Al Tikriti (ph), Saddam's half brother was killed, he was killed in a bombing raid, and yesterday, they arrested him, so he's alive. We've been told twice that Saddam was killed in attacks on his bunkers. Certainly, he survived the first one. It now looks as though he survived the second one.

Only two days ago, people in Washington were insisting Saddam was dead. Well, this is getting quite serious. Either we are going after Saddam, and we have to capture him and to face up to that, because otherwise, we're going to start losing the battle perhaps in the minds in Baghdad. People won't believe what we're saying.

HEMMER: And a lot of people who are doubters will say Osama bin Laden is still out there, has never been captured, touched by a U.S. bomb Perhaps it's the same case in Iraq, but we do not know.

COUGHLIN: We don't know, and this is the fascinating thing. And if Saddam is alive, he will be relishing every moment of this.

HEMMER: Indeed on that point.

COUGHLIN: Thank you, Con.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com