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American Morning
Tariq Aziz Surrenders to U.S. Authorities
Aired April 25, 2003 - 07:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to Iraq right now, more on the surrender of Iraq's former deputy prime minister. Now that he's in custody, could he yield information about the whereabouts of other higher-ups in the Saddam Hussein regime, possibly even Saddam himself?
Tariq Aziz, the eight of spades in the deck of cards the Pentagon has issued to help identify the most wanted looters of the former regime, and for years, Tariq Aziz was Iraq's de facto spokesman.
The latest now in Baghdad and Rym Brahimi, who is watching the story there.
Rym -- good afternoon.
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Bill.
Well, Tariq Aziz had apparently been hiding in the past few days at his sister's house, which is in Baghdad, about two miles east of the Iraqi capital. And now, Nic Robertson, CNN's correspondent, was at that house earlier this morning. He spoke to some of the relatives, who said that for the past few days, Tariq Aziz had actually been organizing his surrender.
Now, he ended up surrendering on Thursday night at 11:00 p.m. local time. Apparently, his concern was that he would be able to do this in a dignified manner.
But I think beyond that, Bill, what's interesting is that the fact that someone at the high-ranking level of Tariq Aziz would surrender, well, that sends a very strong signal to the people of Iraq and to everybody that the regime is definitely gone. And also, probably it's safe to assume that people like Tariq Aziz would have assumed they will be safer in U.S. custody than they would in the hands of the Iraqis themselves.
Now, let's get back to what he can and cannot give to the U.S. military in terms of information, which is why he is one of the most wanted men on their list. Well, definitely Tariq Aziz has been one of President Saddam Hussein's closest advisors. They go way back to the 1950s, when they were studying together, when they were both members of the Baath Party that was then banned.
So a long history with President Saddam Hussein, seen maybe, according to some people, as not as threatening as anybody else, because he was not a member of the Tikriti clan. He was just a front man, the man that they sent abroad, which is why he's probably the most familiar face to many people in the rest of the world -- Bill.
HEMMER: Rym, thanks -- Rym Brahimi in Baghdad.
More on the topic now. Ken Pollack, our CNN analyst with the Saban Center, Brookings Institute down there in Washington, D.C.
Ken -- welcome back.
KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: Tariq Aziz is the kind of guy who either, (a), had information about weapons of mass destruction, or, (b), possibly their whereabouts if they exist right now, crossing borders, maybe into Damascus and to Syria?
POLLACK: It's highly possible. No one really knows for sure. You know, there's a reason why Tariq Aziz was No. 43 on that list of 55, which is that Tariq Aziz traditionally has been the regime's spokesman, he has been their figurehead. He was someone who was entrusted with burnishing Iraq's image internationally, but he was not a member of Saddam's inner circle.
And so, as a result, he may have information about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, but then again he may not.
HEMMER: Let's listen to the sound byte that he gave during an interview. This is Tariq Aziz this past January.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TARIQ AZIZ, FMR. IRAQI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: I am 67 years old. Do you expect me, after all of my history as militant and as an Iraqi -- one of the Iraqi leaders to go to an American prison? To go to Guantanamo? Huh? I would prefer to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: So, what then is the motivation for his surrender? Nowhere to hide?
POLLACK: Well, I think that's exactly it, and I think that the fact that he surrendered himself in Baghdad and the fact that he has been hiding in Baghdad, that's also important, because what it suggests is that the regime found that its defenses, those outer defenses of Baghdad, collapsed so quickly that many of the top regime officials may not have had the time to escape Baghdad.
And so, it may not just be Tariq Aziz holed up in Baghdad; there may be many, possibly even Saddam Hussein, still trapped in Baghdad either down in those tunnels or in bunkers or moving furtively from one neighborhood to another, trying to stay just one or two steps ahead of U.S. forces.
HEMMER: You know, Ken, do you buy into this theory that some are circulating? It's a small theory right now; we want to stress that. But that maybe Tariq Aziz surrendered to negotiate the surrender for Saddam Hussein? Would you take it that far?
POLLACK: You know, it is possible, but it does seem unlikely. My guess is that we would hear rumors of that floating out of the Bush administration if they thought that they were close to getting Saddam Hussein. I think it's a big enough story that we'd start to hear echoes of that somewhere out there.
But beyond that, just what we know about Saddam Hussein doesnt suggest that he is likely to go gently into that good night.
HEMMER: Yes, John Vause gave a fascinating report about an hour ago live here on CNN, reporting in Basra. He says there are strong rumors among people he talks to that suggests that Saddam Hussein cut a deal with President Bush, is living here in the United States, watching the television broadcasts to see who talks and who doesn't, and will exact his revenge at a point to be named, perhaps in the future, maybe sometime very soon.
But knowing that you have Tariq Aziz, who publicly at some point will be on the airways, maybe on the radio back in Iraq, with word of his capture right now for U.S. authorities to have him in custody, that tells them what about these rumors that continue to circulate in Iraq?
POLLACK: Well, it's important to remember, Bill, that Iraq is a traumatized society, and we're likely to see rumors of that circulating for a long time to come. Even after we get Saddam Hussein, it may still be the case that Iraqis are saying it's only one of his doubles, we didn't get the real guy, he is still living on a CIA pension somewhere, maybe with Elvis Presley. Those rumors are going to continue to circulate.
But the key issue here is the point that Rym Brahimi made in her interview, which is Tariq Aziz is such an important symbol of the Iraqi regime, he was so well-known to the Iraqi people that his voluntary surrender I think is going to send a very powerful message to the Iraqi people that this regime really is finished.
HEMMER: All right, Ken thanks -- Ken Pollack, good to see you again. Tariq Aziz, the eight of spades, now in U.S. custody.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired April 25, 2003 - 07:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to Iraq right now, more on the surrender of Iraq's former deputy prime minister. Now that he's in custody, could he yield information about the whereabouts of other higher-ups in the Saddam Hussein regime, possibly even Saddam himself?
Tariq Aziz, the eight of spades in the deck of cards the Pentagon has issued to help identify the most wanted looters of the former regime, and for years, Tariq Aziz was Iraq's de facto spokesman.
The latest now in Baghdad and Rym Brahimi, who is watching the story there.
Rym -- good afternoon.
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Bill.
Well, Tariq Aziz had apparently been hiding in the past few days at his sister's house, which is in Baghdad, about two miles east of the Iraqi capital. And now, Nic Robertson, CNN's correspondent, was at that house earlier this morning. He spoke to some of the relatives, who said that for the past few days, Tariq Aziz had actually been organizing his surrender.
Now, he ended up surrendering on Thursday night at 11:00 p.m. local time. Apparently, his concern was that he would be able to do this in a dignified manner.
But I think beyond that, Bill, what's interesting is that the fact that someone at the high-ranking level of Tariq Aziz would surrender, well, that sends a very strong signal to the people of Iraq and to everybody that the regime is definitely gone. And also, probably it's safe to assume that people like Tariq Aziz would have assumed they will be safer in U.S. custody than they would in the hands of the Iraqis themselves.
Now, let's get back to what he can and cannot give to the U.S. military in terms of information, which is why he is one of the most wanted men on their list. Well, definitely Tariq Aziz has been one of President Saddam Hussein's closest advisors. They go way back to the 1950s, when they were studying together, when they were both members of the Baath Party that was then banned.
So a long history with President Saddam Hussein, seen maybe, according to some people, as not as threatening as anybody else, because he was not a member of the Tikriti clan. He was just a front man, the man that they sent abroad, which is why he's probably the most familiar face to many people in the rest of the world -- Bill.
HEMMER: Rym, thanks -- Rym Brahimi in Baghdad.
More on the topic now. Ken Pollack, our CNN analyst with the Saban Center, Brookings Institute down there in Washington, D.C.
Ken -- welcome back.
KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: Tariq Aziz is the kind of guy who either, (a), had information about weapons of mass destruction, or, (b), possibly their whereabouts if they exist right now, crossing borders, maybe into Damascus and to Syria?
POLLACK: It's highly possible. No one really knows for sure. You know, there's a reason why Tariq Aziz was No. 43 on that list of 55, which is that Tariq Aziz traditionally has been the regime's spokesman, he has been their figurehead. He was someone who was entrusted with burnishing Iraq's image internationally, but he was not a member of Saddam's inner circle.
And so, as a result, he may have information about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, but then again he may not.
HEMMER: Let's listen to the sound byte that he gave during an interview. This is Tariq Aziz this past January.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TARIQ AZIZ, FMR. IRAQI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: I am 67 years old. Do you expect me, after all of my history as militant and as an Iraqi -- one of the Iraqi leaders to go to an American prison? To go to Guantanamo? Huh? I would prefer to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: So, what then is the motivation for his surrender? Nowhere to hide?
POLLACK: Well, I think that's exactly it, and I think that the fact that he surrendered himself in Baghdad and the fact that he has been hiding in Baghdad, that's also important, because what it suggests is that the regime found that its defenses, those outer defenses of Baghdad, collapsed so quickly that many of the top regime officials may not have had the time to escape Baghdad.
And so, it may not just be Tariq Aziz holed up in Baghdad; there may be many, possibly even Saddam Hussein, still trapped in Baghdad either down in those tunnels or in bunkers or moving furtively from one neighborhood to another, trying to stay just one or two steps ahead of U.S. forces.
HEMMER: You know, Ken, do you buy into this theory that some are circulating? It's a small theory right now; we want to stress that. But that maybe Tariq Aziz surrendered to negotiate the surrender for Saddam Hussein? Would you take it that far?
POLLACK: You know, it is possible, but it does seem unlikely. My guess is that we would hear rumors of that floating out of the Bush administration if they thought that they were close to getting Saddam Hussein. I think it's a big enough story that we'd start to hear echoes of that somewhere out there.
But beyond that, just what we know about Saddam Hussein doesnt suggest that he is likely to go gently into that good night.
HEMMER: Yes, John Vause gave a fascinating report about an hour ago live here on CNN, reporting in Basra. He says there are strong rumors among people he talks to that suggests that Saddam Hussein cut a deal with President Bush, is living here in the United States, watching the television broadcasts to see who talks and who doesn't, and will exact his revenge at a point to be named, perhaps in the future, maybe sometime very soon.
But knowing that you have Tariq Aziz, who publicly at some point will be on the airways, maybe on the radio back in Iraq, with word of his capture right now for U.S. authorities to have him in custody, that tells them what about these rumors that continue to circulate in Iraq?
POLLACK: Well, it's important to remember, Bill, that Iraq is a traumatized society, and we're likely to see rumors of that circulating for a long time to come. Even after we get Saddam Hussein, it may still be the case that Iraqis are saying it's only one of his doubles, we didn't get the real guy, he is still living on a CIA pension somewhere, maybe with Elvis Presley. Those rumors are going to continue to circulate.
But the key issue here is the point that Rym Brahimi made in her interview, which is Tariq Aziz is such an important symbol of the Iraqi regime, he was so well-known to the Iraqi people that his voluntary surrender I think is going to send a very powerful message to the Iraqi people that this regime really is finished.
HEMMER: All right, Ken thanks -- Ken Pollack, good to see you again. Tariq Aziz, the eight of spades, now in U.S. custody.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
