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American Morning
Discussin with Martin Indyk
Aired April 30, 2003 - 07:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It is something the Bush administration had waited for, the confirmation of Abu Mazen as the first Palestinian prime minister. A new government now in place. But just hours after that promising moment yesterday, a suicide bomber blew himself up at a cafe in Tel Aviv, killing three.
Abu Mazen earlier in the day addressed the culture of Middle East violence in his speech of acceptance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABU MAZEN, PALESTINIAN PRIME MINISTER (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): We reject terrorism from any party and in all its forms in accordance with our religious and moral principles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Martin Indyk, director of the Sabban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, is live with us today from Washington.
Good to have you back, Mr. Ambassador.
Good morning to you.
MARTIN INDYK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Good morning, Bill.
Thank you.
HEMMER: The images from Tel Aviv yesterday striking and shocking, yet again, with a suicide bomber in Tel Aviv. All this right now in an atmosphere that is going to call for a peace plan later today that will bring about, if you follow this road map, a Palestinian state within three years, 2005.
In your estimation, is that realistic or not?
INDYK: Well, what we're seeing today is this typical Middle East scene of a combination of hope and despair and violence. And the real answer to your question is whether hope can win out over the despair and violence. And that's going to take a real effort, in particular by three leaders -- Abu Mazen; Ariel Sharon, the prime minister of Israel; and George Bush, the president of the United States.
There are better hopes because of the new leadership on the Palestinian side, because of the overall impact of the war in Iraq on the balance of power, because there is an exhaustion on both the Palestinian and Israeli sides. People are looking for a way out of this.
But we see how easy it is to disrupt that process. This terrorist attack right next to the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv is an example of something we've seen so many times before, a plan for reciprocal steps is presented -- two other plans have already been presented, the Tenet plan and the Mitchell plan -- and yet the two sides are unable on their own to take the necessary steps to stop the terrorism, to rebuild confidence and get out of this crisis and on the track to negotiating a two state solution.
Everybody knows what the end game should be, that two state solution. But getting there is going to take a mighty effort and only if the United States is directly engaged in a sustained way is there any real hope that this is going to happen.
HEMMER: There's a flip side on this. From the Palestinian perspective, they're saying an immediate end to the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza. Do you believe the government in place right now in Israel is prepared to do this?
INDYK: I actually do. On the basis of my experience when I was there, in the first six months of the Bush administration as U.S. ambassador, I actually negotiated an understanding with the prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon, that there would be a settlement freeze in the context of a cessation of Palestinian violence and terrorism. That was never taken up at the time. It can be achieved now. The prime minister has already put on the table one card in which he's talked about not just freezing settlement activity, but evacuating settlements.
His defense minister at the moment is making plans to evacuate those illegal outposts, some 78 of them that have gone up in the last two years. But if there isn't a major effort undertaken on the Palestinian side to try to constrain the terrorist organizations and stop their attacks, then I don't believe that the Israeli government is going to do what it needs to do.
HEMMER: Abu Mazen is a figure that Americans are to become very familiar with in the coming weeks and months, and hopefully years to come. He has a history with the United States. The CIA has a history with him, as well. How would you introduce him to our audience as a future leader for the Palestinians?
INDYK: Well, we need to be careful, I'm not aware, and I think I know, that he has any association with the CIA. And this is part of the issue here, is we have to be careful not to embrace him too warmly because we will undermine him as the American stooge in the eyes of his own people.
The man gave a very strong speech yesterday, which is not the first time. Since the beginning of the intifada he has come out and said consistently what he said yesterday, which is that there is not a military solution, that violence is not the way, that there will only be one authority, that terrorism is not only morally wrong but has done great damage to the Palestinian cause. Those, that approach is the signature of Abu Mazen. He does, he broke with Arafat over the use of violence. He was the one that oversaw the Oslo negotiations that led to the first agreements between the PLO and Israel. And he broke with Arafat over the implementation of that because he was unhappy at the way that Arafat did not renounce violence.
So there is reason to believe that Abu Mazen will try to do the right thing. But he's in a very difficult situation. He has already been significantly undermined by Arafat, who has used this process to put himself back on center stage. And he faces the challenge of the terrorist organizations, as we saw yesterday. Even as he's being sworn in they are engaged in an effort to destroy the hope here.
So the challenge is for him to somehow get control of the situation. He has a limited capability. I'm afraid he's going to -- what he's going to do because he's weak in this situation, he's going to sit down and negotiate a cease-fire with Hamas and the other terrorist organizations. That's going to put the Israelis in a big dilemma. They will then be under pressure to pull the army out of the Palestinian areas and the terrorist organizations may use that break to rebuild.
That's why the United States has to get in here and work with the two sides, to try to work out a series of reciprocal steps that both sides will have confidence in that will enable us to get onto surer ground.
HEMMER: So clear. So many challenges ahead. Hanna Shriver (ph) was on our air yesterday at this time. She spoke with a note of optimism. Let's hope it's the case on both sides.
Martin Indyk, thanks.
Good to talk to you and we'll talk to you again.
INDYK: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: All right.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 30, 2003 - 07:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It is something the Bush administration had waited for, the confirmation of Abu Mazen as the first Palestinian prime minister. A new government now in place. But just hours after that promising moment yesterday, a suicide bomber blew himself up at a cafe in Tel Aviv, killing three.
Abu Mazen earlier in the day addressed the culture of Middle East violence in his speech of acceptance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABU MAZEN, PALESTINIAN PRIME MINISTER (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): We reject terrorism from any party and in all its forms in accordance with our religious and moral principles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Martin Indyk, director of the Sabban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, is live with us today from Washington.
Good to have you back, Mr. Ambassador.
Good morning to you.
MARTIN INDYK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Good morning, Bill.
Thank you.
HEMMER: The images from Tel Aviv yesterday striking and shocking, yet again, with a suicide bomber in Tel Aviv. All this right now in an atmosphere that is going to call for a peace plan later today that will bring about, if you follow this road map, a Palestinian state within three years, 2005.
In your estimation, is that realistic or not?
INDYK: Well, what we're seeing today is this typical Middle East scene of a combination of hope and despair and violence. And the real answer to your question is whether hope can win out over the despair and violence. And that's going to take a real effort, in particular by three leaders -- Abu Mazen; Ariel Sharon, the prime minister of Israel; and George Bush, the president of the United States.
There are better hopes because of the new leadership on the Palestinian side, because of the overall impact of the war in Iraq on the balance of power, because there is an exhaustion on both the Palestinian and Israeli sides. People are looking for a way out of this.
But we see how easy it is to disrupt that process. This terrorist attack right next to the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv is an example of something we've seen so many times before, a plan for reciprocal steps is presented -- two other plans have already been presented, the Tenet plan and the Mitchell plan -- and yet the two sides are unable on their own to take the necessary steps to stop the terrorism, to rebuild confidence and get out of this crisis and on the track to negotiating a two state solution.
Everybody knows what the end game should be, that two state solution. But getting there is going to take a mighty effort and only if the United States is directly engaged in a sustained way is there any real hope that this is going to happen.
HEMMER: There's a flip side on this. From the Palestinian perspective, they're saying an immediate end to the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza. Do you believe the government in place right now in Israel is prepared to do this?
INDYK: I actually do. On the basis of my experience when I was there, in the first six months of the Bush administration as U.S. ambassador, I actually negotiated an understanding with the prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon, that there would be a settlement freeze in the context of a cessation of Palestinian violence and terrorism. That was never taken up at the time. It can be achieved now. The prime minister has already put on the table one card in which he's talked about not just freezing settlement activity, but evacuating settlements.
His defense minister at the moment is making plans to evacuate those illegal outposts, some 78 of them that have gone up in the last two years. But if there isn't a major effort undertaken on the Palestinian side to try to constrain the terrorist organizations and stop their attacks, then I don't believe that the Israeli government is going to do what it needs to do.
HEMMER: Abu Mazen is a figure that Americans are to become very familiar with in the coming weeks and months, and hopefully years to come. He has a history with the United States. The CIA has a history with him, as well. How would you introduce him to our audience as a future leader for the Palestinians?
INDYK: Well, we need to be careful, I'm not aware, and I think I know, that he has any association with the CIA. And this is part of the issue here, is we have to be careful not to embrace him too warmly because we will undermine him as the American stooge in the eyes of his own people.
The man gave a very strong speech yesterday, which is not the first time. Since the beginning of the intifada he has come out and said consistently what he said yesterday, which is that there is not a military solution, that violence is not the way, that there will only be one authority, that terrorism is not only morally wrong but has done great damage to the Palestinian cause. Those, that approach is the signature of Abu Mazen. He does, he broke with Arafat over the use of violence. He was the one that oversaw the Oslo negotiations that led to the first agreements between the PLO and Israel. And he broke with Arafat over the implementation of that because he was unhappy at the way that Arafat did not renounce violence.
So there is reason to believe that Abu Mazen will try to do the right thing. But he's in a very difficult situation. He has already been significantly undermined by Arafat, who has used this process to put himself back on center stage. And he faces the challenge of the terrorist organizations, as we saw yesterday. Even as he's being sworn in they are engaged in an effort to destroy the hope here.
So the challenge is for him to somehow get control of the situation. He has a limited capability. I'm afraid he's going to -- what he's going to do because he's weak in this situation, he's going to sit down and negotiate a cease-fire with Hamas and the other terrorist organizations. That's going to put the Israelis in a big dilemma. They will then be under pressure to pull the army out of the Palestinian areas and the terrorist organizations may use that break to rebuild.
That's why the United States has to get in here and work with the two sides, to try to work out a series of reciprocal steps that both sides will have confidence in that will enable us to get onto surer ground.
HEMMER: So clear. So many challenges ahead. Hanna Shriver (ph) was on our air yesterday at this time. She spoke with a note of optimism. Let's hope it's the case on both sides.
Martin Indyk, thanks.
Good to talk to you and we'll talk to you again.
INDYK: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: All right.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
