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American Morning

Formation of new Iraqi Government on Right Path?

Aired May 06, 2003 - 07:12   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to talk Iraq quickly. The U.S. administrator wants to see the nucleus of a new Iraqi government in place later this month, but there are questions, and many of them right now, being raised about some of the names being mentioned by the U.S. civil administrator, General Jay Garner, working on the ground in Baghdad.
Will these leaders allow Iraq to move in a new direction that Iraqis favor?

Fareed Zakaria is editor of "Newsweek International" and the author of a new book, "The Future of Freedom." He's with us back here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Good to see you again, Fareed. Good morning.

FAREED ZAKARIA, "THE FUTURE OF FREEDOM": Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: I've got -- part of me says you've got to start somewhere. So, what's wrong with this plan, if anything, that you see right now?

ZAKARIA: Oh, you're right. It's easy to criticize, and they have to start with some kind of Iraqi authority. There's no problem there.

The issue is what that Iraqi authority will do. The danger is that people in Iraq and who serve in this Iraqi authority will think they're the Iraqi government. I don't think that can happen yet. The United States is the power on the ground. Somebody has to govern Iraq. In the short term, that's going to be us.

The Iraqi authority should be concerning itself with the creation of a new Iraqi political system -- power-sharing, constitutions, courts, all of that kind of stuff.

HEMMER: As we look at the interim government here, we'll put a number of pictures up here. Ahmad Chalabi is probably the most recognized figure. But I think that it comes back to, Fareed -- and you can correct me on this if you like -- but as long as the Iraqis respect those who are giving them direction for the future, that's what this entire thing hinges upon, right? Because if you're going to respect, you'll follow. But if you don't respect, you won't.

ZAKARIA: Well, precisely. I think the key we have to remember is whoever governs Iraq in the foreseeable future -- that is, after we leave -- is going to have to be an Iraqi nationalist. The Iraqi people are going to have to respect him as somebody who is tough, stands up for their interests.

So, we may have preferences one way or the other. I think Chalabi would probably be, you know, a good democrat in the sense of creating a moderate Iraq.

But the key is: Are Iraqis going to see him as an Iraqi nationalist? And that's something these guys have to figure out. We can't pick and choose which leader the Iraqis will find acceptable.

HEMMER: As I look at the videotape here of General Jay Garner, he has his work cut out for him. And Paul Bremmer joins him from the State Department later this week. Ditto on his side as well.

As you look at the massive operation these men are about to undertake here, what are the priorities as you look at this country of 23 million?

ZAKARIA: Well, when writing the American Constitution, James Madison said, you've got to do two things. First, you've got to get the government to govern, to control the governed. Then you have to get it to control itself. In other words, first you create order, and then you've got to create the beginnings of limited government, the beginnings of the kind of constitutional government (UNINTELLIGIBLE). The order part, I think, won't be that difficult in Iraq.

HEMMER: No.

ZAKARIA: Because the American Army is very good at this. And, yes, there will be sporadic fire, there will be things like that, but the outcome will be known in advance. That is to say, the Americans will be able to establish order.

The key is going to be that second task: How do you establish limited constitutional government in a region, in a country that has never known it and has had a kind of brutal winner-take-all politics always dominating?

HEMMER: So, you are shedding somewhat of a positive light on this right now.

ZAKARIA: Well, I think this phase is going well. It's probably going better than people realize. My guess is that the next phase, the creation of, you know, stable constitutional government is going to be tough. I mean, one of the things I talk about in my book is just how difficult it has been in the Middle East to move away from the cycle of repression or Islamic fundamentalism.

HEMMER: And that is truly revolutionary. Fareed Zakaria, "The Future of Freedom," thanks for coming back, OK?

ZAKARIA: My pleasure.

HEMMER: Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.






Aired May 6, 2003 - 07:12   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to talk Iraq quickly. The U.S. administrator wants to see the nucleus of a new Iraqi government in place later this month, but there are questions, and many of them right now, being raised about some of the names being mentioned by the U.S. civil administrator, General Jay Garner, working on the ground in Baghdad.
Will these leaders allow Iraq to move in a new direction that Iraqis favor?

Fareed Zakaria is editor of "Newsweek International" and the author of a new book, "The Future of Freedom." He's with us back here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Good to see you again, Fareed. Good morning.

FAREED ZAKARIA, "THE FUTURE OF FREEDOM": Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: I've got -- part of me says you've got to start somewhere. So, what's wrong with this plan, if anything, that you see right now?

ZAKARIA: Oh, you're right. It's easy to criticize, and they have to start with some kind of Iraqi authority. There's no problem there.

The issue is what that Iraqi authority will do. The danger is that people in Iraq and who serve in this Iraqi authority will think they're the Iraqi government. I don't think that can happen yet. The United States is the power on the ground. Somebody has to govern Iraq. In the short term, that's going to be us.

The Iraqi authority should be concerning itself with the creation of a new Iraqi political system -- power-sharing, constitutions, courts, all of that kind of stuff.

HEMMER: As we look at the interim government here, we'll put a number of pictures up here. Ahmad Chalabi is probably the most recognized figure. But I think that it comes back to, Fareed -- and you can correct me on this if you like -- but as long as the Iraqis respect those who are giving them direction for the future, that's what this entire thing hinges upon, right? Because if you're going to respect, you'll follow. But if you don't respect, you won't.

ZAKARIA: Well, precisely. I think the key we have to remember is whoever governs Iraq in the foreseeable future -- that is, after we leave -- is going to have to be an Iraqi nationalist. The Iraqi people are going to have to respect him as somebody who is tough, stands up for their interests.

So, we may have preferences one way or the other. I think Chalabi would probably be, you know, a good democrat in the sense of creating a moderate Iraq.

But the key is: Are Iraqis going to see him as an Iraqi nationalist? And that's something these guys have to figure out. We can't pick and choose which leader the Iraqis will find acceptable.

HEMMER: As I look at the videotape here of General Jay Garner, he has his work cut out for him. And Paul Bremmer joins him from the State Department later this week. Ditto on his side as well.

As you look at the massive operation these men are about to undertake here, what are the priorities as you look at this country of 23 million?

ZAKARIA: Well, when writing the American Constitution, James Madison said, you've got to do two things. First, you've got to get the government to govern, to control the governed. Then you have to get it to control itself. In other words, first you create order, and then you've got to create the beginnings of limited government, the beginnings of the kind of constitutional government (UNINTELLIGIBLE). The order part, I think, won't be that difficult in Iraq.

HEMMER: No.

ZAKARIA: Because the American Army is very good at this. And, yes, there will be sporadic fire, there will be things like that, but the outcome will be known in advance. That is to say, the Americans will be able to establish order.

The key is going to be that second task: How do you establish limited constitutional government in a region, in a country that has never known it and has had a kind of brutal winner-take-all politics always dominating?

HEMMER: So, you are shedding somewhat of a positive light on this right now.

ZAKARIA: Well, I think this phase is going well. It's probably going better than people realize. My guess is that the next phase, the creation of, you know, stable constitutional government is going to be tough. I mean, one of the things I talk about in my book is just how difficult it has been in the Middle East to move away from the cycle of repression or Islamic fundamentalism.

HEMMER: And that is truly revolutionary. Fareed Zakaria, "The Future of Freedom," thanks for coming back, OK?

ZAKARIA: My pleasure.

HEMMER: Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.