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American Morning
Video Shows al Qaeda Members at Wedding
Aired May 07, 2003 - 08:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: More now on the videotape that shows al Qaeda members at a wedding, believed to be back in 1999 while celebrating the wedding that took place in Hamburg, Germany. They were also said to be plotting the attacks of 9/11 at the very same time. Suspected planners of the attacks, two of the hijackers at least, we are told, can be seen on this videotape.
Mike Boettcher knows this as well as anyone, live in Atlanta for more on this -- Mike, what's the value right now of this tape?
MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, it gives us a really close glimpse of this Hamburg cell, the now infamous Hamburg cell that was the core of the 9/11 plot.
Now, let's take a look at the head table up there and this is the wedding of Sayeed Bahaji (ph). He'll be sitting at the head table in the middle. He is wanted by German authorities, thought to be a top planner in 9/11. He fled to Pakistan just days before the 9/11 attacks and is still at large.
To the left there with the vest sweater and the shirt with his head down, to the left on your screen, to the right of Bahaji, is Ramzi Binalshibh, a top al Qaeda leader who was arrested one year after 9/11. He was the logistics chief.
There on the right highlighted is Marwan Alshehhi, one of the pilots of the United Airlines flight that flew into the second World Trade Center building.
So, Bill, it really gives us a glimpse of several of the hijackers and others who were involved in the planning.
HEMMER: Mike, as experts go through this tape, will we learn more for how they worked or is this just a snapshot into one event that took place in Germany four years ago?
BOETTCHER: Well, it does give us a sense that if you can penetrate a cell early enough, you can get a sense that something is going on, because in the videotape, Ramzi Binalshibh tells the crowd there that they are part of a class and soon that there will be a test and some will pass and some will fail. Now, if you had an informant inside that crowd, you would get a hint that something's up, because Ramzi Binalshibh, shown there highlighted, was bursting at the seams to tell someone, it seems like to me.
So it does give us a hint that there are little leaks out there that you can pick up that something is up -- Bill. HEMMER: Yes, and, Mike, on one of the videotapes the camera panned the room, essentially, and I have to think that is valuable information for investigators looking at this tape. It's also believed possibly Mohamed Atta, one of the pilots flying the first plane into the World Trade Center on 9/11, was he present? Is he in this videotape, Mike? Or is that conclusive yet?
BOETTCHER: We have been told that he was at the wedding, that there is a still photograph of him at the wedding. I have looked at the videotape. I cannot find him on the videotape. There is another man, Mahmoun Darkanzanli, who is thought by German authorities to have had some role in the financing. He denies that. But certainly putting him in the same room with all of these people adds impetus to the families of the 9/11 victims who also allege that he was somehow involved in the plot.
Again, he denies it -- Bill.
HEMMER: Mike, thanks.
Mike Boettcher in Atlanta watching this videotape.
More on this throughout the morning -- and now Heidi with more.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Just how much has the war on terror damaged al Qaeda and what sort of threat could the group still pose?
Steven Simon is a former counter-terrorism expert with the National Security Council and co-author of "The Age of Sacred Terror."
He is joining us now this morning from Washington.
Steven, I want to ask you, we know that two of these al Qaeda associates that we've been talking about in this videotape are still out there, Sayeed Bahaji and Zakariya Essabar.
Who are they? And what information could they possibly have?
STEVEN SIMON, TERRORISM ANALYST, RAND: Well, Essabar was originally supposed to be one of the hijackers, but he and Ramzi Binalshibh, one of the other people who was at the wedding, failed to get visas to enter the United States. They were supposed to go to the United States to get flight training.
Bahaji was a planner and logistical supporter and, in fact, I think it was his telephone book that provided clues to the identities and locations of some of the other suspects.
COLLINS: All right, and even though this videotape reminds us that some 9/11 plotters are still out there, we wonder a little bit about what their power is. The State Department's counter-terrorism expert Cofer Black expressed satisfaction last week that al Qaeda failed to strike the U.S. once the coalition invaded Iraq.
Let's go ahead and listen to what he had to say. Actually, we are going to see that on the screen instead. It says, "This was the big game for them. You put up or shut up, and they have failed. It proves the global war on terrorism has been effective, focused, and has got these guys on the run."
What do you make of those remarks?
SIMON: Well, I think that the CIA and FBI have a lot to be proud of. There were probably about, say, 20 upper mid-level managers in the old guard of al Qaeda that were capable of turning the crank on operations. They knew who the operators were on the ground. They were in a position to put people together, to coordinate their activities. They were in a position to find money and funnel it to co-conspirators.
These were important people in a very operational way and I think the U.S. and its allies have probably taken about half of these people off the street. They're either arrested or dead. About half are still at large. They are, however, under a lot of pressure and I think for the moment they're probably sidelined. But we don't really know.
COLLINS: We don't really know. In fact, what is the potential for this group to reorganize with the lower level members that are still out there?
SIMON: Well, it was the genius, if I can put it that way, of Osama bin Laden and his associates to transform a kind of ragtag bunch of Egyptian killers and Saudi apocalyptics into a worldwide movement, a movement that shares a common ideology, the most important part of which is a sense of confrontation with the West, a sense that Islam is under attack the world over and it's the individual responsibility of able-bodied Muslims to attack the enemy, to free the world of Islam from Western and particularly American oppression.
So...
COLLINS: But hasn't there been, Steven, some evidence that al Qaeda has been reorganizing, particularly in Indonesia and the Philippines?
SIMON: Well, they had long been in Indonesia and the Philippines. And if you look at the things that have happened since the World Trade Center attack, for example, from Bali to Pakistan to East Africa to Tunisia, in addition to an attempt, of course, by Richard Reid, the famous shoe bomber, to blow up an airplane from Paris to the United States, you can see that the group is still capable and eager to do things.
COLLINS: All right, Steven Simon, former National Security Council member and senior analyst at Rand, we certainly appreciate your thoughts this morning.
Thanks.
SIMON: Thanks. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 7, 2003 - 08:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: More now on the videotape that shows al Qaeda members at a wedding, believed to be back in 1999 while celebrating the wedding that took place in Hamburg, Germany. They were also said to be plotting the attacks of 9/11 at the very same time. Suspected planners of the attacks, two of the hijackers at least, we are told, can be seen on this videotape.
Mike Boettcher knows this as well as anyone, live in Atlanta for more on this -- Mike, what's the value right now of this tape?
MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, it gives us a really close glimpse of this Hamburg cell, the now infamous Hamburg cell that was the core of the 9/11 plot.
Now, let's take a look at the head table up there and this is the wedding of Sayeed Bahaji (ph). He'll be sitting at the head table in the middle. He is wanted by German authorities, thought to be a top planner in 9/11. He fled to Pakistan just days before the 9/11 attacks and is still at large.
To the left there with the vest sweater and the shirt with his head down, to the left on your screen, to the right of Bahaji, is Ramzi Binalshibh, a top al Qaeda leader who was arrested one year after 9/11. He was the logistics chief.
There on the right highlighted is Marwan Alshehhi, one of the pilots of the United Airlines flight that flew into the second World Trade Center building.
So, Bill, it really gives us a glimpse of several of the hijackers and others who were involved in the planning.
HEMMER: Mike, as experts go through this tape, will we learn more for how they worked or is this just a snapshot into one event that took place in Germany four years ago?
BOETTCHER: Well, it does give us a sense that if you can penetrate a cell early enough, you can get a sense that something is going on, because in the videotape, Ramzi Binalshibh tells the crowd there that they are part of a class and soon that there will be a test and some will pass and some will fail. Now, if you had an informant inside that crowd, you would get a hint that something's up, because Ramzi Binalshibh, shown there highlighted, was bursting at the seams to tell someone, it seems like to me.
So it does give us a hint that there are little leaks out there that you can pick up that something is up -- Bill. HEMMER: Yes, and, Mike, on one of the videotapes the camera panned the room, essentially, and I have to think that is valuable information for investigators looking at this tape. It's also believed possibly Mohamed Atta, one of the pilots flying the first plane into the World Trade Center on 9/11, was he present? Is he in this videotape, Mike? Or is that conclusive yet?
BOETTCHER: We have been told that he was at the wedding, that there is a still photograph of him at the wedding. I have looked at the videotape. I cannot find him on the videotape. There is another man, Mahmoun Darkanzanli, who is thought by German authorities to have had some role in the financing. He denies that. But certainly putting him in the same room with all of these people adds impetus to the families of the 9/11 victims who also allege that he was somehow involved in the plot.
Again, he denies it -- Bill.
HEMMER: Mike, thanks.
Mike Boettcher in Atlanta watching this videotape.
More on this throughout the morning -- and now Heidi with more.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Just how much has the war on terror damaged al Qaeda and what sort of threat could the group still pose?
Steven Simon is a former counter-terrorism expert with the National Security Council and co-author of "The Age of Sacred Terror."
He is joining us now this morning from Washington.
Steven, I want to ask you, we know that two of these al Qaeda associates that we've been talking about in this videotape are still out there, Sayeed Bahaji and Zakariya Essabar.
Who are they? And what information could they possibly have?
STEVEN SIMON, TERRORISM ANALYST, RAND: Well, Essabar was originally supposed to be one of the hijackers, but he and Ramzi Binalshibh, one of the other people who was at the wedding, failed to get visas to enter the United States. They were supposed to go to the United States to get flight training.
Bahaji was a planner and logistical supporter and, in fact, I think it was his telephone book that provided clues to the identities and locations of some of the other suspects.
COLLINS: All right, and even though this videotape reminds us that some 9/11 plotters are still out there, we wonder a little bit about what their power is. The State Department's counter-terrorism expert Cofer Black expressed satisfaction last week that al Qaeda failed to strike the U.S. once the coalition invaded Iraq.
Let's go ahead and listen to what he had to say. Actually, we are going to see that on the screen instead. It says, "This was the big game for them. You put up or shut up, and they have failed. It proves the global war on terrorism has been effective, focused, and has got these guys on the run."
What do you make of those remarks?
SIMON: Well, I think that the CIA and FBI have a lot to be proud of. There were probably about, say, 20 upper mid-level managers in the old guard of al Qaeda that were capable of turning the crank on operations. They knew who the operators were on the ground. They were in a position to put people together, to coordinate their activities. They were in a position to find money and funnel it to co-conspirators.
These were important people in a very operational way and I think the U.S. and its allies have probably taken about half of these people off the street. They're either arrested or dead. About half are still at large. They are, however, under a lot of pressure and I think for the moment they're probably sidelined. But we don't really know.
COLLINS: We don't really know. In fact, what is the potential for this group to reorganize with the lower level members that are still out there?
SIMON: Well, it was the genius, if I can put it that way, of Osama bin Laden and his associates to transform a kind of ragtag bunch of Egyptian killers and Saudi apocalyptics into a worldwide movement, a movement that shares a common ideology, the most important part of which is a sense of confrontation with the West, a sense that Islam is under attack the world over and it's the individual responsibility of able-bodied Muslims to attack the enemy, to free the world of Islam from Western and particularly American oppression.
So...
COLLINS: But hasn't there been, Steven, some evidence that al Qaeda has been reorganizing, particularly in Indonesia and the Philippines?
SIMON: Well, they had long been in Indonesia and the Philippines. And if you look at the things that have happened since the World Trade Center attack, for example, from Bali to Pakistan to East Africa to Tunisia, in addition to an attempt, of course, by Richard Reid, the famous shoe bomber, to blow up an airplane from Paris to the United States, you can see that the group is still capable and eager to do things.
COLLINS: All right, Steven Simon, former National Security Council member and senior analyst at Rand, we certainly appreciate your thoughts this morning.
Thanks.
SIMON: Thanks. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
