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American Morning

Flawed Intelligence?

Aired May 23, 2003 - 09:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The House Intelligence Committee is growing impatient with the hunt for weapons of mass destruction. They are now asking the CIA director, George Tenet, to re-evaluate U.S. intelligence that suggested Iraq had a weapons program and ties with Al Qaeda. The reports were used by the White House as an argument for war, but a CIA review under way in a first draft already completed begs the question today, was the intelligence flawed? Former CIA director, James Woolsey, our guest now in live in D.C.
Great to have you back here on AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you.

Why the review?

JAMES WOOLSEY, FMR. CIA DIRECTOR: Well, according to the original story on this, I saw yesterday in "The New York Times," this was originally asked for by Don Rumsfeld. And I think it's probably part of his and George Tenet's general notion of reassessing how well we did before the war on a whole range of things in light of the fact we've captured a lot of Iraqis and some Al Qaeda and computer disk drives and files, and it would be good to look at all aspects, but I think there are other things that have cropped up in the meantime.

HEMMER: What are those things?

WOOLSEY: Well, there is this issue of the weapons of mass destruction, which you just mentioned. When Colin Powell gave his statement before the security council a few months ago, it seemed pretty clear, based on the fact that the Iraqis had, according to I think everybody objective who has looked at this, manufactured a lot more, hundreds of ton tons of nerve gas and thousands of liters of anthrax and other biological weapons more than they had any record of destroying. And, as a result, I think everyone assumed that those weapons were still around.

The most interesting thing on this was "The New York Times" report about three or four weeks by Judith Miller, which said that there was an Iraqi scientist captured by the Americans, who has said that he was ordered to destroy substantial stocks of nerve gas, just as the war was beginning. So there may have been some plan to destroy things that we're just getting into. But that there were a lot of nerve gas and biological weapons there as of about the time the war started I think is still quite likely to be true.

HEMMER: When you were director, were you ever asked for a review like this?

WOOLSEY: Oh, sure. I mean, our oversight committees in the house and the Senate...

HEMMER: So this isn't unusual then, to go back and look at the intelligence you had and see how it sizes up when the facts are learned afterwards?

WOOLSEY: I don't think so. And I think Don Rumsfeld and George Tenet would be doing this, even if they hadn't been asked.

HEMMER: There is a suggestion that perhaps the date, the perhaps the intelligence was flawed. Is there any reason at this point to believe that?

WOOLSEY: There was one report about yellow cake coming from Niger, I believe, in Africa, raw uranium ore, that apparently had some very serious problems, at least so I've seen in the press. But that's the only thing I can think of that is, at this point, that we know of out here in the public world, that is likely to have been seriously flawed.

HEMMER: When this review is complete, will the public see it? Is that a guarantee?

WOOLSEY: Oh, I doubt if they'll see all of it. They may see a sanitized version, but a lot of this will have to do with sources and methods, and I think also how well the CIA and the Defense Department used defectors, because a lot of the material that we got on this came from defectors. Some of that may have been wrong. My hunch is a fair chunk of it was right, and the CIA historically has not really liked to use defectors that much. I think the Defense Department has been more attuned to what they've said, and we'll see after this is over who is right.

HEMMER: Thirty seconds left here -- this report out of Iran, if we could switch gears quickly; some of the top Al Qaeda leaders may be in that country, taking refuge, or possibly being held by Iran. What more can you add on that?

WOOLSEY: I think it's highly likely. The Iranians mullahs are very unpopular in their own country, and their great fear is that the United States and Britain and the rest of us will succeed in establishing a Democracy in Iraq.

HEMMER: Can you get to them if they're there?

WOOLSEY: Oh, probably not, not without the mullahs cooperation. And what they will do is give us a little bit of information, or maybe some small fry, but still do everything they can to disrupt things in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East. I think the mullahs who control the instruments in power in Iran are very frightened of their own people, and very frightened that we may help bring democracy to the area.

HEMMER: James Woolsey, former CIA director, thanks again for coming back with us.

WOOLSEY: Good to be with you. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired May 23, 2003 - 09:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The House Intelligence Committee is growing impatient with the hunt for weapons of mass destruction. They are now asking the CIA director, George Tenet, to re-evaluate U.S. intelligence that suggested Iraq had a weapons program and ties with Al Qaeda. The reports were used by the White House as an argument for war, but a CIA review under way in a first draft already completed begs the question today, was the intelligence flawed? Former CIA director, James Woolsey, our guest now in live in D.C.
Great to have you back here on AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you.

Why the review?

JAMES WOOLSEY, FMR. CIA DIRECTOR: Well, according to the original story on this, I saw yesterday in "The New York Times," this was originally asked for by Don Rumsfeld. And I think it's probably part of his and George Tenet's general notion of reassessing how well we did before the war on a whole range of things in light of the fact we've captured a lot of Iraqis and some Al Qaeda and computer disk drives and files, and it would be good to look at all aspects, but I think there are other things that have cropped up in the meantime.

HEMMER: What are those things?

WOOLSEY: Well, there is this issue of the weapons of mass destruction, which you just mentioned. When Colin Powell gave his statement before the security council a few months ago, it seemed pretty clear, based on the fact that the Iraqis had, according to I think everybody objective who has looked at this, manufactured a lot more, hundreds of ton tons of nerve gas and thousands of liters of anthrax and other biological weapons more than they had any record of destroying. And, as a result, I think everyone assumed that those weapons were still around.

The most interesting thing on this was "The New York Times" report about three or four weeks by Judith Miller, which said that there was an Iraqi scientist captured by the Americans, who has said that he was ordered to destroy substantial stocks of nerve gas, just as the war was beginning. So there may have been some plan to destroy things that we're just getting into. But that there were a lot of nerve gas and biological weapons there as of about the time the war started I think is still quite likely to be true.

HEMMER: When you were director, were you ever asked for a review like this?

WOOLSEY: Oh, sure. I mean, our oversight committees in the house and the Senate...

HEMMER: So this isn't unusual then, to go back and look at the intelligence you had and see how it sizes up when the facts are learned afterwards?

WOOLSEY: I don't think so. And I think Don Rumsfeld and George Tenet would be doing this, even if they hadn't been asked.

HEMMER: There is a suggestion that perhaps the date, the perhaps the intelligence was flawed. Is there any reason at this point to believe that?

WOOLSEY: There was one report about yellow cake coming from Niger, I believe, in Africa, raw uranium ore, that apparently had some very serious problems, at least so I've seen in the press. But that's the only thing I can think of that is, at this point, that we know of out here in the public world, that is likely to have been seriously flawed.

HEMMER: When this review is complete, will the public see it? Is that a guarantee?

WOOLSEY: Oh, I doubt if they'll see all of it. They may see a sanitized version, but a lot of this will have to do with sources and methods, and I think also how well the CIA and the Defense Department used defectors, because a lot of the material that we got on this came from defectors. Some of that may have been wrong. My hunch is a fair chunk of it was right, and the CIA historically has not really liked to use defectors that much. I think the Defense Department has been more attuned to what they've said, and we'll see after this is over who is right.

HEMMER: Thirty seconds left here -- this report out of Iran, if we could switch gears quickly; some of the top Al Qaeda leaders may be in that country, taking refuge, or possibly being held by Iran. What more can you add on that?

WOOLSEY: I think it's highly likely. The Iranians mullahs are very unpopular in their own country, and their great fear is that the United States and Britain and the rest of us will succeed in establishing a Democracy in Iraq.

HEMMER: Can you get to them if they're there?

WOOLSEY: Oh, probably not, not without the mullahs cooperation. And what they will do is give us a little bit of information, or maybe some small fry, but still do everything they can to disrupt things in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East. I think the mullahs who control the instruments in power in Iran are very frightened of their own people, and very frightened that we may help bring democracy to the area.

HEMMER: James Woolsey, former CIA director, thanks again for coming back with us.

WOOLSEY: Good to be with you. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com