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American Morning

Pitch for Peace

Aired May 29, 2003 - 08:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: How much then is at stake for the president for this trip? We're going to talk about the challenges right now facing the White House and the region. Editor-at-large Josh Cooper Ramo of Time Inc. We'll also talk about Josh and his new book. "No Visible Horizon" is the title. He reveals his passion for what's being called the world's most dangerous sport. Josh Cooper Ramo here live in New York.
Good to see you. Good morning to you.

Get to your book in a moment here. You just got back from Beirut?

JOSH COOPER RAMO, AUTHOR, "NO VISIBLE HORIZON": That's right.

HEMMER: What is the reaction right now, the fallout, since the fall of Saddam Hussein from sectors like Hezbollah, that you're picking up on?

RAMO: I think it's fairly dramatic. One of the big questions all along was the, degree to which the invasion of Iraq would change the political landscape in the region. You're already starting to see inside Lebanon some very dramatic changes.

HEMMER: How so?

RAMO: Probably the most has to do with Hezbollah. We just mentioned they are very aware that their now being targeted as a terrorist organization, and are working insidiously to try and reposition themselves.

HEMMER: How do they do that?

RAMO: Well, there's a couple of ways they do it. One is by continuing to grow their presence in civil society in Lebanon. This is something they started after the Israelis withdrew, getting involved in building hospitals, and schools and other things. And the second thing is trying, to the degree they can, to lower the obvious external threat level, which means distancing themselves to some degree from the arms importation back and forth across the border with Syria, and trying to use rhetoric and speeches and weekly sermons that turns the volume down. The problem they're having is that so far, it's been very difficult to match the rhetoric with the actions. We saw last week, that Hezbollah leader was arrested trying to sneak into Israel, with CD-ROMs of how to build bombs, so there's still a little bit of a disconnect between what they're talking about and what they're doing. HEMMER: Do you see Hezbollah trying to be more moderate then?

RAMO: Yes, they are.

HEMMER: Publicly, or for real?

RAMO: This is the great question. It is very, very difficult to discuss the degree to -- Hezbollah is one of the smartest organizations operating in the Middle East. They are very successful at what they do, and what they do is they kill Israelis.

However, they figured out over the years that to publicly talk about that core competency increases their danger level. And so whether or not they still carry that DNA from their foundation in 1979 as part of the Islamic revolution in Iran, that DNA that says we want to establish an Islamic state in Lebanon, is something that's very hard to know today. But when they talk publicly, the rhetoric today is much more moderate, and a lot of that is the result of post-Iraq.

HEMMER: So the president goes to the region next Wednesday. Let's say this meeting still takes place, and you get this photo opportunity from Mahmoud Abbas, the new Palestinian prime minister, and the president of the United States, who has refused to sit down and meet with Yasser Arafat. even if only for a photo?

RAMO: Right.

HEMMER: If that happens the way it's planned right now, what's the impact across the region for groups like Hezbollah. What's the impact in Beirut and Damascus?

RAMO: Well, you know, the White House clearly hopes the message is going to be this is the final seal on the envelope, saying that the context, the politics in the Middle East has finally changed, and that it's changed irrevocably, that it is now time to begin solving the longest standing and most difficult crisis in the region.

Now if you're Hezbollah, you have two ways to react to that. One is to wake up and say, the rules are different, it's time for us to become really modernized and get out of the terror game, and the other is to wake up and say, hey, we're on the verge here of completely legitimatizing the Israeli state, we're not going to get everything we want from the Palestinians, what better opportunity for us to step up the terror activity. So the next 60 to 80 days are going to be a chance to watch and see just how this plays out.

HEMMER: Let me make a difficult turn here. What is this all about?

RAMO: This is stunt flying?

HEMMER: Stunt flying.

RAMO: One in 30 pilots who engage in this sport die. In a bad year. In a good year, the numbers are a little better. It is one of the most beautiful and amazing things you can do in an airplane. Stunt flying is competitive aerobatics. It's a very serious and highly disciplined sport, where people are very focused on safety.

HEMMER: The objective, though, is what?

RAMO: The objective is you sort of think of it like ice skating in the sky or like competitive stunt flying, the kind of things you see at an air show. What your goal is to really do everything that's possible inside of an airplane.

HEMMER: You say it's the new NASCAR?

RAMO: They trying to make it the new NASCAR. They hope it will be the next great motor sport.

HEMMER: In terms of popularity?

RAMO: The interest in air shows in the U.S. is huge -- 30 million people a year go to air shows. So the premise has always been, If you could find a way to turn that into a competitive sport, you would have a great business.

HEMMER: Let me read a quote from you: "Why do I fly? I've concluded it's about faith, faith in the ability to see the world a certain way in your head, and then live life so that it is so, faith that everything is recoverable."

RAMO: That's right.

HEMMER: A bit ominous.

RAMO: Or not ominous. I actually kind of look at it in the opposite way, which is the idea that no matter what you confront in life, no matter what difficulties you confront, there is always some way to get through them; even when things seem unsalvageable, you can find some way to get through and get through with elegance. That's what great flying is all about.

HEMMER: I wish you the best of luck on that. Stay safe. Josh Cooper Ramo, and the new book, "No Visible Horizon." Nice to talk to you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired May 29, 2003 - 08:34   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: How much then is at stake for the president for this trip? We're going to talk about the challenges right now facing the White House and the region. Editor-at-large Josh Cooper Ramo of Time Inc. We'll also talk about Josh and his new book. "No Visible Horizon" is the title. He reveals his passion for what's being called the world's most dangerous sport. Josh Cooper Ramo here live in New York.
Good to see you. Good morning to you.

Get to your book in a moment here. You just got back from Beirut?

JOSH COOPER RAMO, AUTHOR, "NO VISIBLE HORIZON": That's right.

HEMMER: What is the reaction right now, the fallout, since the fall of Saddam Hussein from sectors like Hezbollah, that you're picking up on?

RAMO: I think it's fairly dramatic. One of the big questions all along was the, degree to which the invasion of Iraq would change the political landscape in the region. You're already starting to see inside Lebanon some very dramatic changes.

HEMMER: How so?

RAMO: Probably the most has to do with Hezbollah. We just mentioned they are very aware that their now being targeted as a terrorist organization, and are working insidiously to try and reposition themselves.

HEMMER: How do they do that?

RAMO: Well, there's a couple of ways they do it. One is by continuing to grow their presence in civil society in Lebanon. This is something they started after the Israelis withdrew, getting involved in building hospitals, and schools and other things. And the second thing is trying, to the degree they can, to lower the obvious external threat level, which means distancing themselves to some degree from the arms importation back and forth across the border with Syria, and trying to use rhetoric and speeches and weekly sermons that turns the volume down. The problem they're having is that so far, it's been very difficult to match the rhetoric with the actions. We saw last week, that Hezbollah leader was arrested trying to sneak into Israel, with CD-ROMs of how to build bombs, so there's still a little bit of a disconnect between what they're talking about and what they're doing. HEMMER: Do you see Hezbollah trying to be more moderate then?

RAMO: Yes, they are.

HEMMER: Publicly, or for real?

RAMO: This is the great question. It is very, very difficult to discuss the degree to -- Hezbollah is one of the smartest organizations operating in the Middle East. They are very successful at what they do, and what they do is they kill Israelis.

However, they figured out over the years that to publicly talk about that core competency increases their danger level. And so whether or not they still carry that DNA from their foundation in 1979 as part of the Islamic revolution in Iran, that DNA that says we want to establish an Islamic state in Lebanon, is something that's very hard to know today. But when they talk publicly, the rhetoric today is much more moderate, and a lot of that is the result of post-Iraq.

HEMMER: So the president goes to the region next Wednesday. Let's say this meeting still takes place, and you get this photo opportunity from Mahmoud Abbas, the new Palestinian prime minister, and the president of the United States, who has refused to sit down and meet with Yasser Arafat. even if only for a photo?

RAMO: Right.

HEMMER: If that happens the way it's planned right now, what's the impact across the region for groups like Hezbollah. What's the impact in Beirut and Damascus?

RAMO: Well, you know, the White House clearly hopes the message is going to be this is the final seal on the envelope, saying that the context, the politics in the Middle East has finally changed, and that it's changed irrevocably, that it is now time to begin solving the longest standing and most difficult crisis in the region.

Now if you're Hezbollah, you have two ways to react to that. One is to wake up and say, the rules are different, it's time for us to become really modernized and get out of the terror game, and the other is to wake up and say, hey, we're on the verge here of completely legitimatizing the Israeli state, we're not going to get everything we want from the Palestinians, what better opportunity for us to step up the terror activity. So the next 60 to 80 days are going to be a chance to watch and see just how this plays out.

HEMMER: Let me make a difficult turn here. What is this all about?

RAMO: This is stunt flying?

HEMMER: Stunt flying.

RAMO: One in 30 pilots who engage in this sport die. In a bad year. In a good year, the numbers are a little better. It is one of the most beautiful and amazing things you can do in an airplane. Stunt flying is competitive aerobatics. It's a very serious and highly disciplined sport, where people are very focused on safety.

HEMMER: The objective, though, is what?

RAMO: The objective is you sort of think of it like ice skating in the sky or like competitive stunt flying, the kind of things you see at an air show. What your goal is to really do everything that's possible inside of an airplane.

HEMMER: You say it's the new NASCAR?

RAMO: They trying to make it the new NASCAR. They hope it will be the next great motor sport.

HEMMER: In terms of popularity?

RAMO: The interest in air shows in the U.S. is huge -- 30 million people a year go to air shows. So the premise has always been, If you could find a way to turn that into a competitive sport, you would have a great business.

HEMMER: Let me read a quote from you: "Why do I fly? I've concluded it's about faith, faith in the ability to see the world a certain way in your head, and then live life so that it is so, faith that everything is recoverable."

RAMO: That's right.

HEMMER: A bit ominous.

RAMO: Or not ominous. I actually kind of look at it in the opposite way, which is the idea that no matter what you confront in life, no matter what difficulties you confront, there is always some way to get through them; even when things seem unsalvageable, you can find some way to get through and get through with elegance. That's what great flying is all about.

HEMMER: I wish you the best of luck on that. Stay safe. Josh Cooper Ramo, and the new book, "No Visible Horizon." Nice to talk to you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com