Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Interview With Maj. Thomas Rempfer

Aired May 29, 2003 - 09:16   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Is the anthrax vaccine safe? Some members of the military say no, and they are refusing to take it. Private Kamila Iwanowski will be discharged from the Army for refusing to get the shot. She's getting what the Army calls a bad conduct discharge. Iwanowski says the vaccine could be medically dangerous to children she might later have.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PVT. KAMILA IWANOWSKI, U.S. ARMY RESERVES: I found a lot of unfavorable things about anthrax vaccination, that included birth defects, cancer, other stuff. I mean, anybody could dispute that, saying that it was not proven that this would cause this. Well, it wasn't proven that it doesn't cause it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The Pentagon says the vaccine is safe, so we have invited the Pentagon to discuss the issue today, but unfortunately, officials there declined to join us or offer us a statement.

But with us now from Hartford, Connecticut is Thomas Rempfer, a major in the Air Force Reserves. In 1998, Major Rempfer decided to quit the Connecticut Air National Guard because he was -- he decided to not take that vaccine. And I would like to ask you exactly that, Major Rempfer, why did you refuse to take the vaccine?

MAJ. THOMAS REMPFER, AIR FORCE RESERVES: In the 1998, 1999 time frame, we discovered that the previous government position on the vaccine was that it was experimental, and that meant that soldiers could not be ordered to take it, that only the president could order them, and that did not happen. We also discovered that the vaccine same from a plant that had lost its FDA validation. That was a major concern of ours.

COLLINS: Aren't there other vaccines that military personnel are required to take?

REMPFER: Absolutely. There are many public health vaccines military members take freely. This vaccine in particular has been mired in controversy for over four years, because soldiers realize that there is a stark dichotomy between the previous official government position and what they are trying to say now. Indeed, the vaccine is experimental and the government has acknowledged that in the past.

COLLINS: My point is, though, are there any other problems with other vaccines that soldiers and airmen have had to take when going overseas? I am thinking of gamma globulin, any of those.

REMPFER: Yes, and those are risks that service members take. It is part of our service. The problem is, with the anthrax vaccine, that the General Accounting Office and even the Food and Drug Administration have admitted, in official government data, that the adverse reaction dates are hundreds of times greater than the Department of Defense has admitted to, and in addition, something particularly important to the young lady up in New York State in the Army is that the vaccine has been found to be positively linked to birth defects in human studies.

COLLINS: I know you submitted a paper to the Defense Department and testified before Congress on this very issue. What sort of response did you get?

REMPFER: We've always tried to ask the chain of command of the United States military to hold itself accountable on this issue, and yes, we have testified to Congress on the issue, expressing our concerns. We've always believed it was our duty, if facing an illegal or an immoral order to try to ensure that we do it right and to express our professional assent.

As a matter of fact, the Congress concurred and submitted a congressional report that agreed that the vaccine was experimental and then -- therefore mandating it is in violation of the law.

COLLINS: But the Pentagon does say that adverse reactions are rare. In fact, about one in 100,000 vaccinations. The Army's chief anthrax vaccine researcher testified as well. He said this vaccine is safe and effective. Are you overreacting, by any chance, to what they say is a pretty remote possibility of serious side effects?

REMPFER: I think history would ask us to take with a grain of salt what the Department of Defense says. I think if we reflected back on the mid '50s, many families might have been spared a lot of suffering following nuclear testing, same thing with Agent Orange.

The facts are that the vaccine is hundreds of times more reactive than the Department of Defense has admitted. There is deaths now listed on the FDA approved product label. There is a confirmation of the risk of birth defects for women and adverse reaction rates on a systemic realm or chronic long-lasting realm...

COLLINS: So Major Rempfer, let me just interrupt quickly, we only have a little bit of time left. What do you think the Pentagon should do, then, in trying to assure the safety of American military personnel on this notion?

REMPFER: Heidi, I think that in the spirit of the transformation rhetoric the Department of Defense and the secretary of defense are espousing, I think we need to take a step back, look at what we've done. I think we need to stop punishing our soldiers when we need to look at our policies and ensure that they are being properly implemented. The anthrax vaccine program is not, and it can be a case study for the military to move on and assure the soldiers that they are going to do it right in the future. COLLINS: Major Thomas Rempfer of the Air Force Reserves. Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

REMPFER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired May 29, 2003 - 09:16   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Is the anthrax vaccine safe? Some members of the military say no, and they are refusing to take it. Private Kamila Iwanowski will be discharged from the Army for refusing to get the shot. She's getting what the Army calls a bad conduct discharge. Iwanowski says the vaccine could be medically dangerous to children she might later have.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PVT. KAMILA IWANOWSKI, U.S. ARMY RESERVES: I found a lot of unfavorable things about anthrax vaccination, that included birth defects, cancer, other stuff. I mean, anybody could dispute that, saying that it was not proven that this would cause this. Well, it wasn't proven that it doesn't cause it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The Pentagon says the vaccine is safe, so we have invited the Pentagon to discuss the issue today, but unfortunately, officials there declined to join us or offer us a statement.

But with us now from Hartford, Connecticut is Thomas Rempfer, a major in the Air Force Reserves. In 1998, Major Rempfer decided to quit the Connecticut Air National Guard because he was -- he decided to not take that vaccine. And I would like to ask you exactly that, Major Rempfer, why did you refuse to take the vaccine?

MAJ. THOMAS REMPFER, AIR FORCE RESERVES: In the 1998, 1999 time frame, we discovered that the previous government position on the vaccine was that it was experimental, and that meant that soldiers could not be ordered to take it, that only the president could order them, and that did not happen. We also discovered that the vaccine same from a plant that had lost its FDA validation. That was a major concern of ours.

COLLINS: Aren't there other vaccines that military personnel are required to take?

REMPFER: Absolutely. There are many public health vaccines military members take freely. This vaccine in particular has been mired in controversy for over four years, because soldiers realize that there is a stark dichotomy between the previous official government position and what they are trying to say now. Indeed, the vaccine is experimental and the government has acknowledged that in the past.

COLLINS: My point is, though, are there any other problems with other vaccines that soldiers and airmen have had to take when going overseas? I am thinking of gamma globulin, any of those.

REMPFER: Yes, and those are risks that service members take. It is part of our service. The problem is, with the anthrax vaccine, that the General Accounting Office and even the Food and Drug Administration have admitted, in official government data, that the adverse reaction dates are hundreds of times greater than the Department of Defense has admitted to, and in addition, something particularly important to the young lady up in New York State in the Army is that the vaccine has been found to be positively linked to birth defects in human studies.

COLLINS: I know you submitted a paper to the Defense Department and testified before Congress on this very issue. What sort of response did you get?

REMPFER: We've always tried to ask the chain of command of the United States military to hold itself accountable on this issue, and yes, we have testified to Congress on the issue, expressing our concerns. We've always believed it was our duty, if facing an illegal or an immoral order to try to ensure that we do it right and to express our professional assent.

As a matter of fact, the Congress concurred and submitted a congressional report that agreed that the vaccine was experimental and then -- therefore mandating it is in violation of the law.

COLLINS: But the Pentagon does say that adverse reactions are rare. In fact, about one in 100,000 vaccinations. The Army's chief anthrax vaccine researcher testified as well. He said this vaccine is safe and effective. Are you overreacting, by any chance, to what they say is a pretty remote possibility of serious side effects?

REMPFER: I think history would ask us to take with a grain of salt what the Department of Defense says. I think if we reflected back on the mid '50s, many families might have been spared a lot of suffering following nuclear testing, same thing with Agent Orange.

The facts are that the vaccine is hundreds of times more reactive than the Department of Defense has admitted. There is deaths now listed on the FDA approved product label. There is a confirmation of the risk of birth defects for women and adverse reaction rates on a systemic realm or chronic long-lasting realm...

COLLINS: So Major Rempfer, let me just interrupt quickly, we only have a little bit of time left. What do you think the Pentagon should do, then, in trying to assure the safety of American military personnel on this notion?

REMPFER: Heidi, I think that in the spirit of the transformation rhetoric the Department of Defense and the secretary of defense are espousing, I think we need to take a step back, look at what we've done. I think we need to stop punishing our soldiers when we need to look at our policies and ensure that they are being properly implemented. The anthrax vaccine program is not, and it can be a case study for the military to move on and assure the soldiers that they are going to do it right in the future. COLLINS: Major Thomas Rempfer of the Air Force Reserves. Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

REMPFER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com