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American Morning
Is Now the Time for Peace?
Aired June 03, 2003 - 08:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush vows to do whatever it takes to get Israelis and Palestinians to get together on peace. The president again meeting today with Arab leaders. Tomorrow in Jordan, the big day. He'll meet with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas. The stakes are high, as we know. Is now the time for peace, though, in the Middle East?
Saudi Embassy spokesperson Nail Al-Jubeir is with us live in D.C. to talk about the summit and the road map for peace.
Sir, good morning to you.
Thanks for coming back here on AMERICAN MORNING.
NAIL AL-JUBEIR, SAUDI EMBASSY SPOKESMAN: Good morning.
HEMMER: I wanted to get your reaction to what the president said just within the past hour, telling the Israelis to start deconstruction of some of these settlements in the West Bank and also telling the Palestinians to make sure the terrorism is kept in check for good.
Your reaction to the initial steps and statements there?
AL-JUBEIR: Oh, but they are wonderful statements. They're, that's what we were hoping for, the end of settlements and hopefully the end of violence. We can't continue this cycle of violence. It has to stop. And I think the president's statement today is very forceful, you know, stop settlements, stop the violence and let's move on.
HEMMER: What do you think about the Arab world right now trying to embrace Mahmoud Abbas? Is now the time to give him the platform? And, if so, if you don't...
AL-JUBEIR: Well, he is the...
HEMMER: ... what are the chances of this all spiraling back into the violence we have seen for the past two and a half years?
AL-JUBEIR: Well, he is the prime minister of the Palestinians and it's his decision. It's the Palestinians who have decided that he will be the prime minister and we have to deal with that. We will give him whatever authority and whatever backing he needs.
HEMMER: So you will do that, then -- AL-JUBEIR: Well, he is the prime minister.
HEMMER: ... across the Arab world?
AL-JUBEIR: Well, he is the prime minister. He was appointed by President Arafat and he was elected, appointed, voted in by the Palestinian legislators. So he's the person we're dealing with at this moment.
HEMMER: What does it tell us that Yasser Arafat is not in Sharm el-Sheikh? He has not been invited. He still stays back in Ramallah on the West Bank and yet governments in Saudi Arabia, like your own, governments in Jordan and Egypt have not had any sort of outcry for the lack of Yasser Arafat's presence.
Does that indicate at least publicly that you're ready to sidestep Yasser Arafat and move forward?
AL-JUBEIR: Well, you see, it's -- the issue is not Arafat. And I think well, if you personalize the issue of being Arafat or Sharon or whoever happens to be the leader, we're not going anywhere. I think the issue is greater than Sharon or Arafat together. It's an issue of war and peace and we have to get to the peace process.
We can't get sidestepped on issues of who is in charge, is it going to be Arafat, is it going to be...
HEMMER: Yes, I understand that.
AL-JUBEIR: ... prime minister. But, so we have to go beyond that.
HEMMER: But you can't get on this road map to peace without strong leadership.
AL-JUBEIR: Well, it's true, and right now Arafat appointed the prime minister and we have to deal with him. It's up to him to determine, to see if he can deliver on the promises that we expect from him, as well as from the Palestinian Authority, whether it comes down from Arafat or from the prime minister himself. At the end of the day is, there are commitments that have to be fulfilled. We have to go beyond the destruction and the violence and move on towards the peace process.
HEMMER: Yes, what about -- with the war in Iraq now over -- and certainly the violence does continue, it's far from settled right now, at least country wide in Iraq -- what is the view that you perceive right now within the Arab world about American involvement in your region?
AL-JUBEIR: There, American involvement in the region is vital for the peace process. I don't think anybody could sit back and sort of say we can do it without the Americans. There needs to be a foreign intervention. There needs to be a mediator in there. You have two parties that simply do not want to sit together and if they sit together, they're not talking. A foreign sort of intermediary has to be there. And I think the Americans can play an honest broker in that. I mean the president made it clear that he is very forceful in his commitment to bringing about a peace process.
HEMMER: What do you think is more difficult right now, is it more difficult for the Arab world to accept an Israeli state in permanent, in total, or is it more difficult for the Israelis to accept a Palestinian state?
AL-JUBEIR: Well, the Arabs have made a decision back in '81 and it was reiterated by Crown Prince Abdullah back in, I believe it was March of last year, that we're willing to recognize Israel as a state. Israel is there as a fact. The matter, the question is are the Israeli leadership willing to accept a Palestinian state? And right now we have seen there is a movement towards accepting it.
The prime minister of Israel is talking about a Palestinian state, a two state solution. So it's not an issue of are we going to accept it, it is when do we get to actually creating those two states? And that's the issue, when do we get there? When do we stop the violence? When do we stop the killing?
HEMMER: Nail Al-Jubeir.
There's been a lot of killing for 32 months running. We will see if it ends now.
Thanks for your time.
We'll talk again.
AL-JUBEIR: Thank you.
HEMMER: Spokesperson for the Saudi embassy in D.C.
Now, Daryn for more.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right. We want to get an Israeli perspective right now and bring in the Israeli ambassador to the United States and bring in Ambassador Daniel Ayalon, joining us from Washington, D.C.
Mr. Ambassador, good morning.
Thanks for being with us.
DANIEL AYALON, ISRAEL'S AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Good morning.
KAGAN: This news developing as we've been on the air, so I don't know if you've heard President Bush's specific comments, but he came out very strongly today demanding from Israel to begin demands -- dismantling settlements.
Your reaction to those comments, please? AYALON: Yes, Israel wants peace. We have always wanted peace and we are very much willing to move also on the issue of these outposts. I believe that tomorrow you will hear it again from the prime minister. Prime Minister Sharon has said time and again that Israel is willing to take painful concessions.
The problem we have had so far is a lack of a partner. We didn't have a partner who was committed to peace, who was effective in countering terrorism and who was trustworthy. Now we have a movement.
KAGAN: Mr. Ambassador, let me just get back to this, to the topic of the settlements here. And I'm just wondering if specifically we will hear the prime minister, Ariel Sharon, come out and name some specific settlements at this summit that, specific settlements that will be dismantled, instead of just talking about the concept, name specific places.
AYALON: I think the concept has been established and has been reiterated and we will move on this issue of the outposts. I don't think there will be, is going to be a delineated plan, as we don't see a delineated plan on the other side. We will have to sit and talk about specific and concrete actions.
Israel has been taking concrete actions by transferring funds over to the Palestinians, opening up check posts, increasing the work permits in Israel, taking real risks. And we would like to see concrete steps on the other side to counter terrorism. We would like to see arrest of terrorists. We have not seen that yet. Confiscating of illegal weapons. We have not seen that. In short, dismantling the threat of terror, and that is the infrastructure of terror.
KAGAN: Well, you talk about some significant steps, and I think it got the attention of a lot of people around the world to hear the prime minister use the word occupation when talking about the settlements, of the 200,000 settlers that are living in the West Bank and Gaza.
Is it a slap in the face to Ariel Sharon that he was not invited to Sharm el-Sheikh?
AYALON: Well, we would like to meet any Arab leader, and this is part, I think, of the responsibility that the president has put on the shoulders of the Arab world. First is to accept Israel as a Jewish state in the full meaning for it. And secondly is to start normalization. And thirdly is to support peace, educate for peace, stop support for incitement or financing of terror and also supporting Abu Mazen. This is something which is very important because if the Arab world would like to have a partner for peace, they cannot keep elevating and meeting Arafat, which undermines the whole process and certainly undermines the legitimacy and rule and control of Abu Mazen.
KAGAN: I'm just, I'm not quite sure if you answered my question. I'm not sure if you're saying it was a slap in the face or if you're saying if this is what it takes to build up Mahmoud Abbas then fine, Ariel Sharon can sit out this one because they'll be meeting later in Jordan. AYALON: We would have been very much interested in meeting with all the Arab leaders. But it's not up to us. They have to be willing to do that. We are willing to do it right now. The question should be addressed, actually, to the Arab leaders.
KAGAN: And what about President Bush? What do you think he'll be able to bring to this process that previous presidents haven't been able to accomplish?
AYALON: Well, we would like the United States and the president very much to succeed. We have had too many casualties and too much mourning in the last two years and a half. We would like to see an end of Palestinian terror and we would like to see once and for all a commitment by the Palestinians, first of all, accepting Israel's right to exist. This is number one. And then, we can negotiate as partners, then we can negotiate as equals. I think that the president's tour is a testament to his commitment and we very much welcome it.
KAGAN: And the world will be watching, in Jordan.
Daniel Ayalon, Israel's ambassador to the United States.
Mr. Ambassador, thank you for your time this morning.
AYALON: Thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 3, 2003 - 08:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush vows to do whatever it takes to get Israelis and Palestinians to get together on peace. The president again meeting today with Arab leaders. Tomorrow in Jordan, the big day. He'll meet with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas. The stakes are high, as we know. Is now the time for peace, though, in the Middle East?
Saudi Embassy spokesperson Nail Al-Jubeir is with us live in D.C. to talk about the summit and the road map for peace.
Sir, good morning to you.
Thanks for coming back here on AMERICAN MORNING.
NAIL AL-JUBEIR, SAUDI EMBASSY SPOKESMAN: Good morning.
HEMMER: I wanted to get your reaction to what the president said just within the past hour, telling the Israelis to start deconstruction of some of these settlements in the West Bank and also telling the Palestinians to make sure the terrorism is kept in check for good.
Your reaction to the initial steps and statements there?
AL-JUBEIR: Oh, but they are wonderful statements. They're, that's what we were hoping for, the end of settlements and hopefully the end of violence. We can't continue this cycle of violence. It has to stop. And I think the president's statement today is very forceful, you know, stop settlements, stop the violence and let's move on.
HEMMER: What do you think about the Arab world right now trying to embrace Mahmoud Abbas? Is now the time to give him the platform? And, if so, if you don't...
AL-JUBEIR: Well, he is the...
HEMMER: ... what are the chances of this all spiraling back into the violence we have seen for the past two and a half years?
AL-JUBEIR: Well, he is the prime minister of the Palestinians and it's his decision. It's the Palestinians who have decided that he will be the prime minister and we have to deal with that. We will give him whatever authority and whatever backing he needs.
HEMMER: So you will do that, then -- AL-JUBEIR: Well, he is the prime minister.
HEMMER: ... across the Arab world?
AL-JUBEIR: Well, he is the prime minister. He was appointed by President Arafat and he was elected, appointed, voted in by the Palestinian legislators. So he's the person we're dealing with at this moment.
HEMMER: What does it tell us that Yasser Arafat is not in Sharm el-Sheikh? He has not been invited. He still stays back in Ramallah on the West Bank and yet governments in Saudi Arabia, like your own, governments in Jordan and Egypt have not had any sort of outcry for the lack of Yasser Arafat's presence.
Does that indicate at least publicly that you're ready to sidestep Yasser Arafat and move forward?
AL-JUBEIR: Well, you see, it's -- the issue is not Arafat. And I think well, if you personalize the issue of being Arafat or Sharon or whoever happens to be the leader, we're not going anywhere. I think the issue is greater than Sharon or Arafat together. It's an issue of war and peace and we have to get to the peace process.
We can't get sidestepped on issues of who is in charge, is it going to be Arafat, is it going to be...
HEMMER: Yes, I understand that.
AL-JUBEIR: ... prime minister. But, so we have to go beyond that.
HEMMER: But you can't get on this road map to peace without strong leadership.
AL-JUBEIR: Well, it's true, and right now Arafat appointed the prime minister and we have to deal with him. It's up to him to determine, to see if he can deliver on the promises that we expect from him, as well as from the Palestinian Authority, whether it comes down from Arafat or from the prime minister himself. At the end of the day is, there are commitments that have to be fulfilled. We have to go beyond the destruction and the violence and move on towards the peace process.
HEMMER: Yes, what about -- with the war in Iraq now over -- and certainly the violence does continue, it's far from settled right now, at least country wide in Iraq -- what is the view that you perceive right now within the Arab world about American involvement in your region?
AL-JUBEIR: There, American involvement in the region is vital for the peace process. I don't think anybody could sit back and sort of say we can do it without the Americans. There needs to be a foreign intervention. There needs to be a mediator in there. You have two parties that simply do not want to sit together and if they sit together, they're not talking. A foreign sort of intermediary has to be there. And I think the Americans can play an honest broker in that. I mean the president made it clear that he is very forceful in his commitment to bringing about a peace process.
HEMMER: What do you think is more difficult right now, is it more difficult for the Arab world to accept an Israeli state in permanent, in total, or is it more difficult for the Israelis to accept a Palestinian state?
AL-JUBEIR: Well, the Arabs have made a decision back in '81 and it was reiterated by Crown Prince Abdullah back in, I believe it was March of last year, that we're willing to recognize Israel as a state. Israel is there as a fact. The matter, the question is are the Israeli leadership willing to accept a Palestinian state? And right now we have seen there is a movement towards accepting it.
The prime minister of Israel is talking about a Palestinian state, a two state solution. So it's not an issue of are we going to accept it, it is when do we get to actually creating those two states? And that's the issue, when do we get there? When do we stop the violence? When do we stop the killing?
HEMMER: Nail Al-Jubeir.
There's been a lot of killing for 32 months running. We will see if it ends now.
Thanks for your time.
We'll talk again.
AL-JUBEIR: Thank you.
HEMMER: Spokesperson for the Saudi embassy in D.C.
Now, Daryn for more.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right. We want to get an Israeli perspective right now and bring in the Israeli ambassador to the United States and bring in Ambassador Daniel Ayalon, joining us from Washington, D.C.
Mr. Ambassador, good morning.
Thanks for being with us.
DANIEL AYALON, ISRAEL'S AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Good morning.
KAGAN: This news developing as we've been on the air, so I don't know if you've heard President Bush's specific comments, but he came out very strongly today demanding from Israel to begin demands -- dismantling settlements.
Your reaction to those comments, please? AYALON: Yes, Israel wants peace. We have always wanted peace and we are very much willing to move also on the issue of these outposts. I believe that tomorrow you will hear it again from the prime minister. Prime Minister Sharon has said time and again that Israel is willing to take painful concessions.
The problem we have had so far is a lack of a partner. We didn't have a partner who was committed to peace, who was effective in countering terrorism and who was trustworthy. Now we have a movement.
KAGAN: Mr. Ambassador, let me just get back to this, to the topic of the settlements here. And I'm just wondering if specifically we will hear the prime minister, Ariel Sharon, come out and name some specific settlements at this summit that, specific settlements that will be dismantled, instead of just talking about the concept, name specific places.
AYALON: I think the concept has been established and has been reiterated and we will move on this issue of the outposts. I don't think there will be, is going to be a delineated plan, as we don't see a delineated plan on the other side. We will have to sit and talk about specific and concrete actions.
Israel has been taking concrete actions by transferring funds over to the Palestinians, opening up check posts, increasing the work permits in Israel, taking real risks. And we would like to see concrete steps on the other side to counter terrorism. We would like to see arrest of terrorists. We have not seen that yet. Confiscating of illegal weapons. We have not seen that. In short, dismantling the threat of terror, and that is the infrastructure of terror.
KAGAN: Well, you talk about some significant steps, and I think it got the attention of a lot of people around the world to hear the prime minister use the word occupation when talking about the settlements, of the 200,000 settlers that are living in the West Bank and Gaza.
Is it a slap in the face to Ariel Sharon that he was not invited to Sharm el-Sheikh?
AYALON: Well, we would like to meet any Arab leader, and this is part, I think, of the responsibility that the president has put on the shoulders of the Arab world. First is to accept Israel as a Jewish state in the full meaning for it. And secondly is to start normalization. And thirdly is to support peace, educate for peace, stop support for incitement or financing of terror and also supporting Abu Mazen. This is something which is very important because if the Arab world would like to have a partner for peace, they cannot keep elevating and meeting Arafat, which undermines the whole process and certainly undermines the legitimacy and rule and control of Abu Mazen.
KAGAN: I'm just, I'm not quite sure if you answered my question. I'm not sure if you're saying it was a slap in the face or if you're saying if this is what it takes to build up Mahmoud Abbas then fine, Ariel Sharon can sit out this one because they'll be meeting later in Jordan. AYALON: We would have been very much interested in meeting with all the Arab leaders. But it's not up to us. They have to be willing to do that. We are willing to do it right now. The question should be addressed, actually, to the Arab leaders.
KAGAN: And what about President Bush? What do you think he'll be able to bring to this process that previous presidents haven't been able to accomplish?
AYALON: Well, we would like the United States and the president very much to succeed. We have had too many casualties and too much mourning in the last two years and a half. We would like to see an end of Palestinian terror and we would like to see once and for all a commitment by the Palestinians, first of all, accepting Israel's right to exist. This is number one. And then, we can negotiate as partners, then we can negotiate as equals. I think that the president's tour is a testament to his commitment and we very much welcome it.
KAGAN: And the world will be watching, in Jordan.
Daniel Ayalon, Israel's ambassador to the United States.
Mr. Ambassador, thank you for your time this morning.
AYALON: Thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
