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American Morning

Interview With Henry Kissinger, Former Secretary of State

Aired June 03, 2003 - 07:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: American presidents, we know, have been trying to bring peace to the region for decades. The phrase "shuttle diplomacy" was coined to describe the peace efforts.
The former secretary of state, Henry Kissinger, during the Nixon administration of the 1970s, Dr. Kissinger is here with us on "AMERICAN MORNING" today.

Nice to see you, doctor.

HENRY KISSINGER, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.

HEMMER: Is there a reason to be more optimistic today than, let's say, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years prior?

KISSINGER: The problems are the same, but the experience of the parties is different. They've gone through years of intifada now, which cost a lot of lives on the Palestinian side. And the Israelis must have learned that acquiring more Arab populations only complicates their problem, so they can focus better now on where the dividing lines are to be. And they have had experience in the mutual suffering that they can inflict on each other.

HEMMER: The mutual suffering, the killing has been intense now for 32 months. Do you get the impression that we hear from a lot of reports from the region that people are just tired and exhausted, and that's the reason why the impetus is there to go ahead and try and get things back on the road?

KISSINGER: Well, people are tired. Also some radical regimes have disappeared, like Iraq. And I think the moderate elements have something more to work with. But hatreds are encrusted, and any progress is going to be met by outbreaks of terrorism, and we have to get used to that. It will be a difficult road. The president is courageous to take it on.

HEMMER: Courageous, you say. There's a big risk in this, too, as well, if you look at his predecessor and the amount of time and effort he put into this, and getting essentially nothing in the end.

KISSINGER: Yes, but President Clinton tried to do it in one week. He tried to assemble everybody and get it all done in one week. That was sort of a heroic try, but it cannot work that way. I think President Bush understands that it's going to be a more long-term process and it's going to go through various phases of this. But it will be tough. HEMMER: There are those who suggest today is even more critical than perhaps tomorrow, when he sits down with Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas, trying to get a number of moderate Arab states to really crack down on the terrorism throughout the region and also support the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas. When you consider that, are they willing right now, in your estimation, in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia and in Jordan to embrace Mahmoud Abbas and allow Yasser Arafat to continue to slip toward the sideline?

KISSINGER: I think they're probably ready to support Mahmoud Abbas verbally. The question is to what degree that Abbas can get the security forces away from the control of Arafat?

But there's one thing that all of the parties could do -- or the Arab parties could do. They probably cannot get terrorism under control immediately. That will take some time. But they could stop the incitement of terror that is on all of their television stations and in all of their newspapers and in all of their textbooks. And if progress were made in that direction, they could meet one of Israel's nightmares, which is whatever agreement they make will only be a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on the road to their extermination.

On the other hand, the Israelis have to show some more understanding than they have in the past, but the impact of their settlements on the Arab sense of dignity. So, this is the region in which I believe the negotiations can progress.

HEMMER: Optimally here, they are calling for a Palestinian state on this current road map by the year 2005. Is that too optimistic?

KISSINGER: No, but one has to understand the road map is a series of general statements, with which one can agree, but they don't tell you how to do it, when to do it, in what sequence, who does what, what you do when people slip off their commitments. So, the road map is just a statement of generalities that have to be filled in by negotiations and indicate a long -- or at least a very difficult road. But I think the president is right and courageous in undertaking it.

HEMMER: Dr. Kissinger, thanks for your thoughts this morning. Thanks for coming on with us today.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired June 3, 2003 - 07:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: American presidents, we know, have been trying to bring peace to the region for decades. The phrase "shuttle diplomacy" was coined to describe the peace efforts.
The former secretary of state, Henry Kissinger, during the Nixon administration of the 1970s, Dr. Kissinger is here with us on "AMERICAN MORNING" today.

Nice to see you, doctor.

HENRY KISSINGER, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.

HEMMER: Is there a reason to be more optimistic today than, let's say, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years prior?

KISSINGER: The problems are the same, but the experience of the parties is different. They've gone through years of intifada now, which cost a lot of lives on the Palestinian side. And the Israelis must have learned that acquiring more Arab populations only complicates their problem, so they can focus better now on where the dividing lines are to be. And they have had experience in the mutual suffering that they can inflict on each other.

HEMMER: The mutual suffering, the killing has been intense now for 32 months. Do you get the impression that we hear from a lot of reports from the region that people are just tired and exhausted, and that's the reason why the impetus is there to go ahead and try and get things back on the road?

KISSINGER: Well, people are tired. Also some radical regimes have disappeared, like Iraq. And I think the moderate elements have something more to work with. But hatreds are encrusted, and any progress is going to be met by outbreaks of terrorism, and we have to get used to that. It will be a difficult road. The president is courageous to take it on.

HEMMER: Courageous, you say. There's a big risk in this, too, as well, if you look at his predecessor and the amount of time and effort he put into this, and getting essentially nothing in the end.

KISSINGER: Yes, but President Clinton tried to do it in one week. He tried to assemble everybody and get it all done in one week. That was sort of a heroic try, but it cannot work that way. I think President Bush understands that it's going to be a more long-term process and it's going to go through various phases of this. But it will be tough. HEMMER: There are those who suggest today is even more critical than perhaps tomorrow, when he sits down with Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas, trying to get a number of moderate Arab states to really crack down on the terrorism throughout the region and also support the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas. When you consider that, are they willing right now, in your estimation, in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia and in Jordan to embrace Mahmoud Abbas and allow Yasser Arafat to continue to slip toward the sideline?

KISSINGER: I think they're probably ready to support Mahmoud Abbas verbally. The question is to what degree that Abbas can get the security forces away from the control of Arafat?

But there's one thing that all of the parties could do -- or the Arab parties could do. They probably cannot get terrorism under control immediately. That will take some time. But they could stop the incitement of terror that is on all of their television stations and in all of their newspapers and in all of their textbooks. And if progress were made in that direction, they could meet one of Israel's nightmares, which is whatever agreement they make will only be a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on the road to their extermination.

On the other hand, the Israelis have to show some more understanding than they have in the past, but the impact of their settlements on the Arab sense of dignity. So, this is the region in which I believe the negotiations can progress.

HEMMER: Optimally here, they are calling for a Palestinian state on this current road map by the year 2005. Is that too optimistic?

KISSINGER: No, but one has to understand the road map is a series of general statements, with which one can agree, but they don't tell you how to do it, when to do it, in what sequence, who does what, what you do when people slip off their commitments. So, the road map is just a statement of generalities that have to be filled in by negotiations and indicate a long -- or at least a very difficult road. But I think the president is right and courageous in undertaking it.

HEMMER: Dr. Kissinger, thanks for your thoughts this morning. Thanks for coming on with us today.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.